Rigs to Riches Episode 9: Math Brain vs. Sales Machine – Steve Trang’s Framework for the AI Era

Whether you’re looking for your first deal or trying to buy back your time, we’ve got you covered. This is Rigs to Riches, where we talk freedom, family, and flipping the script on your finances. All right, guys. Welcome back to Rigs to Riches. Awesome, awesome guest today. Guy I’ve known for several years. Was watching him, watching his podcast, seeing him everywhere, and then got to be actually finally when I actually been in Collective Genius for a while, but when I got to move up to uh the premier level, got to be like side by side in the same room and next to the same tables as Steve and learned a lot from him over the years, played a lot of basketball with him. But man, guys, he’s he’s got a a really cool story. And for those of the engineers out there, Steve’s a former engineer, so I know you guys are going to connect with him, but he’s done he’s done a lot since then. So, Steve, go ahead and uh there’s a quick introduction, but man, tell me a little bit about like yeah, where it started for you and how you got to here in the sales and everything. >> I mean, I think like a lot of people at least around my age that are in the business, uh Rich Dad, Poor Dad, right? That’s what got us. We’re working at W2 and then that’s like the eye opener. There’s another way. And so, you know, you got to buy real estate and I’m trying to buy real estate. Uh, I bought a couple, but while buying, I was like, wait a minute. This realtor over here is making way more money than I am as an engineer. Have a master’s degree in electrical engineering, but this realtor is making a lot more money over here. And he’s not that smart. What is going on here? It’s like, I could do that and I’ll make more money as a realtor. I can buy more properties, which was a mistake. But that was the thought process. Got my real estate license, quit my job, two weeks notice, right? And did the whole >> What year was this actually, Steve? I’m just curious. >> 2007. >> 2007. And what year do you remember >> what year what year did you read Rich Dad Poor Dad? Was it right on >> I was like 05 probably. >> 05. >> Yeah. I I read 05 and like and that was when like the market was going crazy and I just kept thinking there’s no way this can continue. There’s no way this can continue. And it went it kept continuing through ‘ 06. It kept going through ‘ 07. I was like I guess it’s going to keep going. I’ll get into it more. And then it did not keep going. >> Right in 07. Right when you Yeah. Right when the >> right when I quit my safe cushy job at Intel. So So yeah, I did that. Uh I was a realtor. And then as a realtor, you do what you think is the next logical step was open a brokerage. It’s not, but that’s what I thought it was. I opened a brokerage. That’s a nonprofit organization. But then eventually you open a title company that makes money. You start doing joint ventures for mortgages that makes money. All the while I’m wholesaling, flipping, and then in 2018 started a podcast. And that’s where most people know me from. I already had success as a realtor, as a broker, and all that other fun stuff. But the podcast is what really put me on the map nationally. This is what opened doors. This was what created relationships. is what whenever I walk into a room, most people have an idea of who I am. It all started with the podcast, but then the podcast a year into it, people start finding out that I do sales training or we’re we’re good at sales, which is all it is. We just reverse engineer sales. But people are like, “Hey, like Steve’s really good at teaching sales. ” And so I started charging for that. And as I got really good at at sales training, Jason Medley, the founder of Collective Genius, is in my ear every single time. You should only do one thing. do one thing well, stop everything else. Finally stopped doing any real estate what whatsoever last year, right, in 2024. And then this year, we added AI as a layer on top of our sales training. And this is where like, you know, we’ve always done well in the sales training, but like it’s been a freaking rocket ship since we incorporated AI into the the sales training. >> Wow. All right, man. So many things to pick apart. Let’s go back to the beginning, though, Steve. Um, this is going to be a fun one. >> So 2007. Yeah. you obviously picked the opportune time to jump in. But before we answer that one, I want to hear though your background like in the engineering stuff like what you were doing in your W2 and like Yeah, let’s start there. >> Yeah. So, you know, growing up Asian family, you know, basically you graduate high school, you go to college, you become an engineer. That’s kind of the way it is, right? Uh I was really good at math. Um that’s always been my thing. I’ve always been really good at math. And I didn’t have a passion when I went to college, but because I was good at math, like well, I guess I’ll become an engineer. [laughter] And so, uh, became an engineer, did electrical, got my bachelor’s degree, graduated Sumakum Laai, got a full ride to UC San Diego for my master’s degree. Uh, not only did I get a scholarship, but like they actually paid me a wage to go to grad school. I did that. Then I went to go work at Intel. By the way, I went graduated in college in O2. This right after. com and 911, so like no one was hiring, so I had to go to grad school. Like getting a job wasn’t really an option at that point. So, I had to go to grad school. Go to grad school. By the time I finished my master’s degree, Intel is the only company in the country hiring. Uh, so I applied for Intel because the Intel in Sacramento, even though I live in San Diego, the Intel in Sacramento is the only place hiring again in the country, but I know that there’s an Intel a mile from my parents house in Chandler. So, I figure I’m going to work at Intel until there’s an opening in Chandler. Then, I’m going to put in a transfer, which is exactly what I did. I worked in Intel in Sacramento for a year and a half. As soon as there was an opening, I applied for a transfer to a different department. Got the transfer, worked there for another two years, and again the whole time like watching the real estate market. There’s no way this can continue. There’s no way this can continue. I was like, well, guess it’s going to continue. And again, that’s I was I bought my first piece of property in ‘ 05, bought my second one in ‘ 06, bought my primary in ‘ 06 as well. Yeah. Then everything kind of fell out, >> man. Okay. So, first off, I never knew I I thought I was the only one, Steve. They’re like, I went to college. Didn’t wasn’t sure either, but I’m like, I’m good at math. So, I got a I got a a bachelor’s degree in math and chemistry and minor in physics >> and a bunch of stuff that like what the hell am I going to do, right? And kind of like you, I got got an assistantship at Wyoming for petroleum engineering, thank God, to actually get something that I could use. But, man, but you just Yeah, you just Oh, man. It’s something too. I should tell my kids and other people should like not everyone is good at math and but let’s go with that like let’s go with that trend Steve cuz right cuz you’re good at math and maybe like me like I’ll just share this story I’ll never forget when I read Rich Dad Poor Dad I was a math guy it all started to resonate but when he talks about door-to-d dooror sales I was like that scared the crap out of me I’m like and more so like I’m like I wish I would have done that if I would have just >> if I could go back tell myself 10 years ago I went door to door sales to figure it out like I didn’t feel like I knew sales but when did you feel like you got it. >> Uh, well, unfortunately, humility is not like my greatest strength, so like I thought I could always do it. And I was a cold caller out of high school. So, one of my first jobs out of high school was working at a cold call center. And I actually set the record in sales in a day while I worked there. So, like I could do it, but I’m a very logical person. If you look at the predictive index, that’s assessment we all use. Uh, the E, which is like logic versus uh emotional or feeling. I am. Gary Harper said of all the ones he’s seen, I am the most objective he’s ever seen. So like if I’m selling, I’m just selling logically and that does not work on houses, right? It it works on selling credit cards. It works on selling magazine subscriptions, children’s books, and cold calling. Did not work in selling houses. And so I I just completely fell flat on my face uh when I got into real estate because it’s like, “All right, Casey, you want to look at a three-bedroom, two bath uh 1500 feet in Tempe, Arizona, all under 250,000? Great. And I just show you all of them. And then all right at the end, Casey, which one do you want? And you just say, well, I need to to think about it. It’s like, what do you need to think about? Like I showed you every single one like which one you need. Which one do you want to buy? Right? It was a very logical process cuz that’s how I buy. >> Mhm. >> Right. I would go look at all like, okay, that’s the one. But that is not a normal buying process. And so, uh, yeah, I was horrific. Absolutely atrocious in sales in the beginning. >> Wow. And the real estate sales, right? So, so yeah, how did you keep going? So, how did you start to lever that or tweak and maneuver from there? >> Really, uh, I learned a lot from my mentor uh, in the beginning, but really the biggest thing was when I joined a coaching program. So, I was really reluctant to join coaching because I always thought it was a scam. Like, if they can do it, why are they selling it? Like, >> what’s going on here? Like, if I was successful, I wouldn’t sell it. Why? I wouldn’t give away my secrets. Why are they doing it? Right? Like that was my scarcity mindset, which I think we all have when we start. >> Mhm. >> But eventually, I had no other options. You know, 07 was rough. 0809 was really rough and then eventually I was like well I guess I got to get into coaching because it’s that or like get a regular job. I’d rather get into coaching, right? Uh so I paid for a coach and once I got into the coaching program, I met really successful people and then I heard their talk tracks. I say, “Okay, that talk track’s pretty good. I’m going to steal that one. That talk track’s pretty good. I’m going to steal that one. ” So I started just taking people’s talk tracks. These are all tactical phrases. These are not strategic. There’s not a framework. It’s just like, okay, that’s a good line for this objection. That’s a good line for that objection. I’m just like pocketing all these. Still not learning how to get good at sales, but having good oneliners for the most common objections. >> Wow, man. So, okay. Well, first off to unpack that. Yeah, I completely resonate like when I I’m doing it myself. I still work in my W2 and I want to learn how to wholesale and it’s like actually guys I know they’re selling this wholesaling program. I’m like, man, it was 11 grand. I’m like, I don’t want to spend that. And it was kind of a coaching program. I’m like, I was very skeptical, right? But it was like literally if I could go back and tell myself and kick myself in the butt and be like, “Dude, you had to close one deal on your first direct mail campaign that you learned how to do from them. You closed like three deals. ” And anyway, but it was a limiting mindset and sounds like you did. >> We all We all do when we get into it. >> Yeah. But I I love what you’re saying though, too. So, you got around the right people. You’re pulling and I know this about you too. You’ve just learned like like the like you call it being charismatic or witty or like we were talking about this one day too about like the best sales guys or what what were your words like they’re the most >> uh they’re the best trash talkers. Trash talkers make the best sales people because they’re witty, right? Like whatever you say they got to come back. Whatever whenever they say this, you already have something real quick to say. It doesn’t you don’t have to >> what did he say? Why did he say that? What should I say? It’s like something comes in and like before it’s not even it’s not even conscious. It’s just entirely subconscious. Like I already know what I’m going to say as soon as they’re done. And it’s that wittiness that I have found from like the best trash talkers that make great sales people because they’re not stuck in this analysis of what do I do here, what do I do there. It’s like they’ve got it instinctively. And it’s not even like a pre-programmed line. It’s just they already have a comeback before the other person even finishes. Yeah. I I have found that to be true consistently. You know, the way I’ve measured that is you got Eric Brewer, R. J. Bates, Chris Jefferson, but I mean, there’s a reason why also you look at like, you know, good athletes also make good sales people. I think there’s a little bit of that as well. >> What do you think though on so on your side, right? Like as you mentioned, you knew sales, but you were a math brain, right? So, I would think you’re logical. You might think about, hey, before I’m going to respond to this, I’m going to think logically, consider all of it. But like there was just just a unique thing that makes you like that or if you train yourself. >> No, I’ve always been a trash talker. Like I’ve always been trouble on the court. Like I was never going to beat you with athleticism. [laughter] I was going to beat you with the trash talking. I was just going to get in your head, right? I was going to upset you. Like I’ve had people try to fight me on the basketball court. I was like, I’m just playing basketball. We’re just playing basketball. Like I’m sorry I hurt your feelings. >> I was just I had to tell you you’re not a good shooter because if I didn’t say anything, you would just keep driving by me and keep scoring on me. So, if I said you couldn’t shoot, now you’re going to prove to me that you can shoot and not have to worry about you driving to the basket, right? So, you know, these little mind games we play. But, yeah, I think that was really helpful because even though I’m I’m analytical, the other thing that I I realized cuz I I didn’t have a actual sales coach until 2018 when I learned like how important it was to have a framework, a process, as well as getting them deep into the emotions, I was able to remove all logic from the conversation. because I know like if I do this, this is going to work. Well, if I know this works, which is getting them emotional, why would I ever talk about logic again? So once I understood that my natural conversation style is ineffective at sales and there’s a more optimal style, just change the way I talk completely in a sales conversation. Hey, real [snorts] quick. If you’re listening to this while driving to the rig or on your lunch break from your W2 or late at night after the kids are in bed, I want you to know something. You’re in the right place. I started the Revive Network with one goal. Help a thousand families build financial freedom through real estate without sacrificing time with the people they love. That’s what I did. Went from shell oil rigs to flipping properties to coaching my kids football. It’s completely free. No courses, no upsells, just real strategies, weekly calls where we work through actual deals, and a community of families on the same path. Head to caseerson. com and join us. Let’s build this together. >> Okay. Yeah, keep going here. This was a big part I want to talk to you about today because like just think of all the engineers watching this today that are like and whether they want to use this eventually to buy real estate or go start a business or whether they want to use this in corporate America setting like how have you Yeah. What would you say to them? >> Yeah. So I I would say that everyone buys emotionally and they justify logically, right? Every single person I don’t care how logical you are. I don’t care how rational think you are. If facts won, if logic won, [snorts] we would all vote the same exact way. We would all buy the same exact products, right? Everyone either buy a Mac or a PC. Everyone would be Republican or Democratic. If facts were the only thing that mattered, we would all do the same thing. Clearly, we all put different feelings and justifications on those facts, right? Like we have our own lenses that we come to our own conclusions and we have confirmation bias to reinforce those things. So like for me, I’m a car guy. So like I am completely logical into time buying cars. Now I’m buying this car because I want to go fast. Like every car I bought, I my last two cars, 0 to 60, 3 seconds or less. There’s no like logical reason for that, but I just want to be able to go 0 to 60 in 3 seconds or less. I want to be able to corner on on a at an intersection going 45. Why? I don’t know. I just want it. Right? >> So, there’s no logical basis for that. Uh if you look at like I had this conversation, we have a disposal sales training yesterday call yesterday’s call and they’re like, well, you know, the people we sell our deals to though, they’re very logical. They’re all numbers based, right? Like that was the objection from the dispo guy. It’s like kind of they’re just they’re not emotional like a homeowner is where they’re crying, their shoulders are heaving, you got to go get a Kleenex, right? That’s when you’re buying a house. But the emotions of someone buying a property from you is like, “Hey, Casey, look, I want to go with you. I understand like you got to be 20,000 below asking price. I got five other people that are looking at it and I can’t take your offer to John over here if I still got five other offers. ” like what what should I go tell John? And now you know there’s five other offers. You don’t want to lose this deal. It’s the eBay effect. Now your ego is coming into play. I’d rather win than buy at my price. That’s emotion. >> Mhm. >> I’m I don’t want to lose this deal is an emotional decision. [laughter] It’s an complete ego-driven decision. >> Your math, your fancy spreadsheets, your maximum allowable offer, your budget for holding cost all went out the window. You started telling yourself, “Oh, I can get I could probably get this flip done in 3 months versus four months. I could probably skim a little bit on the kitchen. I don’t have to go as hard in the kitchen. You start justifying why your numbers are off. It’s a freaking spreadsheet. You got data, data, and data and data to support that. But when you’re going to lose this deal, your brain starts playing tricks on you. And now you’re like, well, I could probably get this done faster. Or you know what? I’ve actually had some good success in this neighborhood. I could probably turn this around a little bit faster. And you start buying out of your body box, start buying out your criteria, and then three months go by and you’re like, why the hell did I overpay for that property? >> Mhm. because your ego got in the way, which is just emotions. So, we just tap into emotions. If I find myself losing a sale, I’m going to find what’s an emotional reason why they would want to bring the sale. Not only bring the sale back, but why they will convince me why I should sell it to them or why they why I should buy their house. Right? All our prospects are trying to convince me. I don’t try to convince anybody because when I try to convince, I’m losing. If I’m convincing, I’m losing. If I get you to try to convince me, I’m winning. Right? And then the best example I use here, you know, for uh all our our friends watching is the sales and dating is very much the same. If you can imagine you’re in the bar and you’re trying to convince this girl to go have a drink with you or go dance with you, what are what’s the likelihood if you’re like convincing, you’re begging, it’s not very good. So you got to be koi. You got to play hard to get. And now that is attractive. That’s more they want to chase you more. And when they want to chase you more, you become again attractive, magnetic, and so on. >> So, you’re just flipping it around. So, yes, you’re just constantly because I was going to ask for more examples of how how you start to and then I guess Yeah. How do you is that experience? Is it how do you start to flip that around? You can use the borrower experience or you could use >> buy and selling something, but how do you flip what’s your keys to flipping it around like that? >> Uh, just remember in every situation, they need it more than you need it. Whoever needs to sell more loes, right? So, like the homeowner, they’re like, “Yeah, I got these five cash buyers, right? I got all the time. ” They may say, “Hey, Casey, look, I appreciate you had me come over today. Sounds like you’re trying to get the most amount of money. ” He’s like, “Well, yeah, of course. ” Okay. Well, the reality is I can’t buy every house, so like if this if you’re telling me you need the most amount of money, I don’t think we’re going to be a good fit. So, we should probably end it here. And then you’re gonna be like, “What the heck’s going on here? ” Right? I say, “Look, in all the years I’ve been buying houses, Casey, I’ve never been the highest. Matter of fact, if I was the highest, I’d honestly be a little nervous. I might have missed something here. ” But in all the years we’ve been buying all the houses, even though we weren’t the highest homeowners still went with us, why do you suppose that might be? And when you ask that question, like that’s exactly what they said was important to them. >> Mhm. >> But now you’re like, you don’t want me to leave. You’re like, well, what’s the secret? Why is Steve why are they going with Steve even though he’s lowest uh payer? And now they’re chasing me, right? So like even though they came in like, well, I don’t know. I got five offers. I don’t know why I should go with you. In the end, it’s like, well, I don’t want Steve to walk out the door. Like, there’s money here. And it’s this idea of taking it away from someone where they want it more. The more you take something away from someone, the more they want it, the more you push it on them, the more they resist. >> Mhm. >> So, we’re always taking it away. >> Yeah. Perfect. Nailed it. Like, that’s super tangible, guys. This is why like I’ve listened to a lot of Steve’s sales trainings like in Collective Genius, watched other watch him on his podcast. This is why every time as an engineer I would get excited because I’m learning more sales and getting better at it. So, >> so you guys are getting a little snapshot, but Steve, let’s go here next. What are your This put you on the spot here, but >> you mentioned like your favorite oneliners, right? Listen to those guys over the years, right? And picking them up. What are some of the top ones you picked up over the years? >> So, the ones I like, this is back when I was wearing my realtor hat, right? Is just like trying to figure commissions because commission is like your biggest objection, right? When you’re listing houses, is commission like, you know, 3 months versus six months listing agreements. on the commission one like, “Hey, Steve, I don’t want to pay 6%. ” It’s like, “All right, so Casey, it sounds like the amount of commission you pay is more important than how much money you would walk away with. ” And they’re like, “No, how much I walk away with is more important. ” Okay, so if I could share with you, show you actually how we can help you walk away with more money working with us than the other realtors. At that point, commission’s relevant. It’s like, “Yeah, if you can show me. ” And then we do a whole presentation around that, right? which we had the stats to show like our stats we could clearly demonstrate we were better realtors than everybody else. A lot of people say they’re better. We actually had the numbers to support it, right? I could pull reports and like break it down, right? Like days on market, average sales price, the listing price and so on. So something like that. But going back to, you know, that multiple offer situation, I would say something along the lines of like, you know, case it sounds like getting the highest offer is actually more important than the most reliable offer. And they’re like, “Well, no, the most reliable offers most important. ” Oh, okay. And then we go and have that conversation and we share like all these horror stories of going with other wholesalers and like I don’t want any of those things to happen. Like, yeah, okay. So, it sounds like, you know, you know exactly what you want. You want someone that you can count on, someone you can rely on, that’s a dependable offer that’s going to be there. When we say it’s going to be like, yeah, that’s what I want. And then we go back to pushing our side. But now we’ve pushed them off the highest price ledge and more like well what do I have to do to get a reliable offer. So those are some like the the oneliners. The other one we used uh was um that’s something I had to use. Again this is wearing the realtor hat, right? This is uh I’m showing a house. I’m meeting Casey and his wife and they’re looking to buy a house and you’re like ah I don’t know Steve like we like this house but I don’t know if this is the one. And I’ll say, “Hey, Casey, would you rather be the person that decides you you don’t get this house, or would you like someone else to decide that for you? ” What is everyone going to say? I want to be the one that decides I don’t get the house. Perfect. Makes total sense. Here’s what we can do. We can go ahead and submit offer tonight. And when the seller accepts it, you can cancel anytime in the next 10 days. But now it’s your choice that you don’t get this house. You’re like, “Yeah, I like that. ” And then what do we know? Once you sign a contract like you have started like moving in. You started like the shutters, the furniture, this and that. You you basically buy the house. >> Yep. >> But it was just a question like do you want to decide or do you want someone else to decide? Everyone wants to say I want to decide. Great. Here’s how we do that. >> Good. Yeah. These are so good. All right. A couple things too. I noticed like in reading obviously Chris Vos stuff never splits a difference. Looks like a little bit of labeling, right? It sounds like >> lots of labeling >> stay in there. What other I was just gonna ask you too like Chris Ross, one of my favorite negotiator, one of my favorite books, but who are your like favorite either authors or just guys that like really get it when it comes to negotiating? >> So, obviously Chris Voss is great. David Sandler, you can get any of his audios, they’re really good. He wrote the book Can’t Teach a Kid to Ride a Bike at a seminar. Lots lots of really good audio out there. Ian Ross on my team. We used to run the Close My Cells podcast. Lots of brilliant stuff in there. And then, uh, Unlimited Selling Power was a great NLP book. I can’t remember who wrote it, but it gets a lot of the NLP neural linguistics programming principles in a digestible format. Because the problem with NLP learning and training is that it is not like a well produced curriculum. It’s like you got to wade into this world and like kind of like pull out of it what you can pull out of it. So, Unlimited Selling Power is the most concise source of NLP. There’s so many books, most of them suck. So, that one’s the best one of all of them. That’s good. I mean, you just gave three of them for us that I’m writing now, too, guys. So, I’ I’ve just read one of those three. So, got to get to Steve’s level. Steve, go a little bit more though into NLP. Explain how that cuz I’m assuming that’s a big part of what you guys do. You’re still >> Yeah. So, NLP NLP is basically the process of getting someone to speak to their subconscious, to speak into their like their their mind without them knowing what’s going on. A lot of people have described this as hypnotic selling. I’m selling I’m selling you and you have no idea I’m selling you and then it’s a lot of like instead of saying we do like for example we talk about pain and gain right so in our sales process we get you like deaths of despair we get you to remember how awful everything is right and then we bring that all that pain in the past to the present and now you feel all the emotions associated with it and then I get you to the future what’s the ideal outcome hey Casey let’s pretend 30 days gone by I stopped by Actually let’s pretend it’s 30 days I stopped by let’s pretend we met 30 days ago and I agree to buy your house. We’ve been working together and today I came over with the cash and I hand it to you. What are you doing with the cash and then now you’ve pictured me handing you cash and now you’re excited about the prospects of holding cash in your hand. Even though it’s not real, you already feel like you own the cash and I said, “What are you going to do with it? I’m going to go buy an RV. I’m going to travel the country. ” Man, that’s awesome. What kind of RV? Where are you going? Are you bringing your dogs with you? What are the scenes? and you start describing all these activities you’re going to do. And just you talking about experiencing this future reality makes it all real. And then again, your body can’t tell the difference between an imagined reality and reality. You’re going to feel all the joy, all the awesomeness that’s going to occur when you have that state outcome. And now I’m going to say, “Well, Casey, like what? But what if we can’t make that happen for you? ” You’re like, “No, it has to happen, Steve.

What are you talking about? ” about like I need to get out of this pain. I need to have this future reality. What do we have to do to make this happen? So we go to this. So neural linguistics programming is speaking away. We’re getting to the subconscious. We’re having you imagine this reality, right? Again, it’s like hypnotic cells. I’m having this conversation with you. You don’t hear any of my words. Your brain is just thinking about all these different realities, conjuring up all these emotions that gets you to take action. >> Wow. Yeah. And then you can just stop. I assume at that point you’re just stopping and letting their wheels spin. >> Yeah. Like let them tell me this awesome reality. Tell me, keep telling me more. Tell me more about it. >> The more they’re talking about it, the more they have to make it because as they’re talking about it, they own it. >> It’s this reality that they have. And if you don’t come to an agreement today, then they’re like, well, but then I don’t get to have this. Like, I want to make this happen for you, but I can’t do it the price you’re asking for. And this is where they begin to negotiate against themselves. >> Man, that’s good. Great explanation. >> Quick question. Are you tired of trading time for money? Working long hours, but not building anything that gives you freedom? That’s exactly why I created the Revive Network, a free community where I’m helping a thousand families escape that trap through real estate investing. Every Friday, we do problems to profits calls where we work through real deals together. Deal structuring, creative financing, how to get started. It’s all there. No charge, no catch, just genuine help. If you’re ready for that first step, go to caseydreggerson. com. Join the network. Let’s do this. >> I wanted to dive into and maybe where like from the engineering background to how you’ve really grown a phenomenal sales company as you mentioned, you went all in based on Jason Medley’s advice and I’m sure many other mentors advice years ago. Yeah. Do are there like things that you’ve brought in from the engineering mindset or what do you think is you’ve shared a lot of them already, but like now in your sales world, >> right? What do you think is like your competitive advantage? >> If you’re making a fab, I was electrical engineer. If you’re making a fab, like, you got to do it the same way every time. You can’t have these different variation of fabs. If we’re doing a design review, we got to go through the process of doing design review. Everything is is is processoriented. And so, we’re very committed to the process. Our AI tool measures how well you follow the process that’s been prescribed, right? So, it’s all about will you follow the process. The most difficult challenge that sales people have, myself included, is following a prescribed process that we know works. So like we just regiment, process, process, process. So I would say that’s probably the biggest thing on on the engineering side. And then just in my head, I’m always doing a mental checklist. All right, did I set did I reset expectations before we start? Did I get deep into the pain? Did I get into the future? Just like what if it can’t happen? Did I summarize their pain and gain? Did I rule out all other decision makers? Did I rule out identify the time frame? Did I do a good enough job in price before I go make an offer? I have like I am regimented in doing all these because these are best practices. And whenever we deviate from this, this is when our conversion rates drop. This is where I get frustrated. And like when our sales guys like, hey, I missed this. It’s like, well, it looks like you missed this step. They’re like, yeah. It’s like, why? Why did you miss this step? >> Wow. So, yeah. I mean, process consistency, all that makes sense, man. So, you think the big differences you’re seeing is like just unconsistency and other like Oh, that that’s where I was actually going to go, Steve, is you’ve started out probably coaching more real estate clients, but now I know you guys coach all different industries. What’s been like one of your favorites that you really enjoy that you maybe didn’t get to see? >> Well, was interesting. So, we have a client right now that does uh carpet cleaning, right? And so, we have these appointment setters. We we generate these AI bots, right? These AI bots, they’re appointment they’re booking appointments for our wholesale clients. And like the whole the the AI bot for wholesaling is like, “Okay, Casey, like who else is going to be impacted by this? ” Okay. And they’re going to be they’re going to be available when we meet this Monday at 2 p. m. It’s hammering all decision makers be present, right? And so we create this bot and we hand it to our clients in coconut uh at uh in their cleaning company. And like, hey, Steve, like this bot’s pretty good, but like do we really need to hammer home all decision makers be present for carpet cleaning? Like generally like one person’s there and they can just pay for the carpet cleaning. It’s like oh yeah, you’re right. [laughter] We don’t need all decision makers present for carpet cleaning >> just to sell a carpet. Yeah. [laughter] >> So those are uh it’s interesting to see other other industries there in that way >> have they but is it I’m assuming a lot of it so just translates h it’s the same following the process I mean how hard to other industries >> it’s only been hard only in like the the IP side and intellectual property side not hard at all. The biggest challenge, the reason why there are so many well-trained salespeople in wholesaling is because our margins are massive, right? Like a lot of sales, a lot of our clients have no problems stroking me a check for $15,000 cuz they know if they put their sales team in here, they’re going to make way more than 15K, right? Everyone gets a 10x ROI and it’s it’s a freaking no-brainer in wholesaling. >> Yeah. Yeah. But if you’re selling insurance and you’re trying to stack $30 for every single client and like you hope you know like to get to 15,000 I don’t know how many that is it 500 but like yeah 500 extra sales to break even on that right like the math doesn’t quite work the same for coaching. So like uh the reason why again like I see wholesalers consistently are some of the best trained sales people is our margins are massive right? I think solar is up there, roofing is up there, but in all these other industries where the average ticket is less than 500 bucks, why would you pay for sales training? Like, and I know like I know why you should pay for it, but most people just don’t see uh a reason for it. >> Yeah, that’s been the hardest thing in breaking out. >> Okay, very interesting. All right, let’s dive into the AI stuff cuz I’m Yeah, personally love it and I’ve seen you speak about it a couple times, but yeah, tell me like how that evolved and like where that’s going. So AI has been really really it’s been really fortunate having an engineering background like that that that’s when where the engineering background has been like the most helpful right because like I built this whole thing on my own in like in the evenings and evenings and weekends right but I would say the biggest thing is or how it came to be was literally March of this year at CG premiere in Dallas on day one Stephanie betterers pulls me aside like hey you know like we need to create a roleplay bot to train our sales people like okay that’s a cool idea thank you like I think AI is a distraction right now but thank you for you know, honoring me with this. And day two, Brad Chandler pulls me aside. Hey, Steve, like I have these new sales people joining our team. I need to know when they’re ready to start taking real leads. Like, okay. So, he’s like, “Give me I need a system to rate my team. ” Okay, we can do that. Interesting. Thank you. Day three, Casey Ryan pulls me aside like, “Hey, Steve, you know what you should do? You should have your AI automatically review all the sales calls based off your process. ” I was like, “Okay, three people I look up to in a mastermind I pay to be in, to learn from, right? So, I go back to the office. Uh, when I get back to Phoenix, talk to my teams like, “Hey, here’s what happened to CG. ” Three different people said, “We need to do this. ” I’m afraid AI is a shiny object, but three people I look up to saying we should do this. We should probably seriously consider it. Team, why is this a bad idea? Because that’s because I I’m such a I think everything’s a good idea. I have to ask my team like, “Why is this a bad idea? ” Like, we can’t really see any arguments against it. We said that AI was our biggest threat. Why don’t we be that AI threat? It’s like okay. And so we went down that journey and like it’s just crazy like it’s only been like seven, eight months and the massive success we’ve had with all the clients and happy clients. Like that’s the best part. We have a lot of clients and they’re all happy. We’ve processed over 700,000 sales calls, a couple hundred clients. It’s been a wild ride. >> Wow. >> How do you and just where it goes, right? Like that’s always my biggest question is like how fast it changes, right? And how the work you do now is it completely irrelevant tomorrow, right? But at the same time kind of wild west of go or >> yeah so right now we got we got appointment setting bots but right now we are working let’s see where we are with this but I’ve told the team I want by June of next year a bot that can actually buy a house over the phone on a virtual appointment like that’s like that’s that’s the target for June of 2026. So we’ll see if we get there. Uh but I believe we will be the first one there. Maybe it’s a March, maybe it’s a September, but I don’t believe anyone can catch us in this race because we got myself and Ian, two sales nerds working on this. Myself and my brother Patrick and more brothers cuz all my five young all five of my younger brothers are all software engineers. So, we have a Discord where the six of us are like kind of like trading ideas. Thanksgiving dinner. I’m talking to them like Thanksgiving dinner at my parents house. We’re having conversations like, “All right, how is Steve how can Steve build a large language model where we can actually buy a house over the phone using AI? ” That’s the Thanksgiving dinner conversation. >> Heck yeah. [laughter] Who I mean, when you guys are watching this today, if you’re like me, you’re like, I want to be that’s my Thanksgiving dinner. [laughter] >> That’s what I’m talking about. >> Yeah. >> That’s awesome. >> It was good. It was great, >> huh? Well, it makes sense. You got all the resources. You got man, you’ve clearly articulated and wrote it down. Gonna go after it. I Yeah, I can’t wait to see it. What do you think is what’s the biggest challenge in holding that back to get there? >> It’s just resources. So, like we have clients that we got to keep creating features for, right? So, we’re hiring more people. The greatest thing actually, the most surprising thing that I should have known better because Amanda Dean told me, but I didn’t listen to her. She’s my coach. I didn’t listen to her. But she’s like, “Hey, like onboarding is going to be your greatest challenge. Onboarding is going to be your greatest challenge. ” Like, “Yeah, I know. But we got it. We got it. We didn’t get it. We didn’t have it. It was our biggest challenge. And so we hired Patrick. We hired Darly. And then we’re hiring one more. We’re going to make another job offer today to really just streamline the onboarding process because the greatest threat to our success is happy clients, right? Like if they join on and they have a crappy experience, now they’re like telling other people about it and they’re using other programs. Well, that’s a big problem. So our greatest issue right now, and it it’s been a lot better. Like 3 months ago, we had five people cancel in a week. Like I couldn’t sleep that weekend. Like it was like my I’m never miserable in business. My wife’s like, “What’s wrong with you? ” Right? Like I have no stress ever. And my wife’s like, “What’s the matter with you? ” But that was a low point. And again, that was 2 3 months ago. Like right now, again, clients are happy again. But our goal is to create a situation from the moment you sign up to like it’s up and running in 24 to 48 hours. So like you get to use all the tools in 24 to 48 hours. And like the thing is like the AI tool for the user is really simple, right? It’s like sales call is done. Hey, I reviewed the call. New lead comes in. Hey, I booked an appointment. Like for the user, it’s really simple to connect. It is extremely technical. And so that’s where like we just said, “All right, forget it. We’ll just do that all inhouse. ” Our team will just connect everything for you. So that you you pay and then immediately you’ve got automatic call reviews, roleplay bots, and appointment setting bots for you. And you don’t have to do anything else besides pay us because our team did all the technical work. >> Wow. Yeah, dude. That’s Yeah, >> it makes so [snorts] much sense in so many ways. And I see what you mean. You resisted, but like she’s right and you’re right. Like the biggest detriment, the only thing going to stop your momentum is that, right, is just bringing people on too fast and >> Yeah. destroying goodwill you’ve built. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> All right, Steve. So, the inevitable question with that, if you’re going to be sell the bots selling and closing houses, like what does this do to acquisition agents and the industry? What’s your what’s your thought outlook on that? Face to face will always win. At least for the next few years, it will always win, right? Uh I think you just can’t be face to face. Like you can’t put AI in a living room. It’s always gonna be a robot for the foreseeable future unless someone uses Neuralink, right? But for the most part, like face to face is going to win. So number one, if you’re in doing face to face sales, you’re good. And number two is no matter how good our AI is, I still believe an awesome human closer will outperform it. The only challenge is that the human closers are inconsistent. They get sick, right? their kids get sick, that they take vacations, whatever it is, had way too much pasta for lunch, whatever the problem is, right? There’s there inconsistency with the humans, but like one-on-one, the human will win more often than not. Over time, the AI should win. So like the question is whether the humans can keep up and be consistent, which is what I asked for of my team. Were you consistent or were you inconsistent? Because if you’re inconsistent, we’re going to replace with AI. If you’re consistently good, then your job is safe. >> It’s a great outlook. Great way to inspire people. >> Be consistent. Follow the process that you’ve we agreed to follow. >> Do what you said you’re going to do. >> Yep. [laughter] All right. Good stuff. Listen, I know you’re busy. You’re grinding, taking care of family, trying to figure out how to build something bigger. I get it. I’ve been there. That’s why the Revive Network exists. is completely free and it’s where I’m helping a thousand families achieve financial freedom the same way I did through real estate that works around your life not against it weekly problems to profits calls deal structuring help a community of people just like you all free case. com join the revive network let me help you build this all right Steve I want to make sure we leave some time for our uh final we call it our freedom four so it’s all about family and financial freedom so I got four of them for you Steve first one if you lost it all today and I didn’t give Steve any of these prepared, so he’s going to But he’s witty. He’s fast. He’ll get it quick. >> So, if you lost it all today, I’ll give you a softer ball to start. If you lost it all today, what’s the first thing you would do to get it back? >> If I have access to my phone, my phone numbers, I would just call everyone on my phone system. It’s like, “Hey, here’s where I’m at. Here’s where I’m stuck. Can you help me out? ” That’s it. The humans are naturally wired to want to help people. So, if I just say, “Hey, I need help. ” I think I’m assuming here I still have all my goodwill. Uh, if I say I need help, I think there’s probably at least a hundred people that will help me out if I say, “Hey, I I Casey, I need help. ” >> I think there’s probably at least 100 people I can rely on to help me. >> Yes. I mean, the goodwill obviously, but that’s such a good point that like you I forget that Yeah. when you need help with something, just saying. People want to help. Good point. >> People want to help. Yeah. >> Love it. All right. Number two. What is one deal you’d never do again and why? Could be real estate deal anything. Your last one. >> My last deal. My last one. So I stopped buying houses. This I made the decision in 23. Stopped marketing in February 24. I I had a house I verbally committed to November or October November 23. So I made a verbal commitment. I bought it. This is my quirk. I don’t I don’t expect this of other people. My thing is if I told you I was going to buy it, I buy it. That’s just my thing. My word is so important to me that if I told you I’m going to buy it, I will buy it. Even if I’m going to lose money, right? [snorts] Well, I lost money on this one. So I didn’t know when I bought it. It was a trap house. meaning that’s the house everyone went to to do drugs, right? Make and do drugs. So, that was the first issue. Second, there was so much concrete in that house that had to be undone in the flip that I thought, ah, it’s not that big a deal. It was a big deal because this is a historic neighborhood where like the flips are selling for 550. I was under contract for 250. It’s like 250, 550. There’s just no way, no way I can lose on this deal. I lost I lost 20K on that deal. The worst part of all of it wasn’t any of that. Worst part is I still haven’t uploaded the footage. It’s been a couple years. It’s been over a year now. The worst was that we actually have on footage a realtor taking a dump in the backyard because the house again, it was a trap house. So, we put cameras everywhere so that we knew there was trespassing going on. So, we have that. That’s That’s the worst. I’ll never do that deal again. [laughter] >> Whoa. What did you do to deserve that one? >> That was wild. It was that crazy people. >> I should have just not kept my word. That’s probably the lesson there. >> Let it go, man. All right, that was good. I don’t know if we can top that one, Steve. All right, number three. What’s the one thing you do? This is a good one, and you probably could. You’ve given us a bunch already, but what’s one thing you do that like most investors overlook? >> One thing I do that most investors overlook. This might might not quite answer the question directly, but like I love creative problem solving. I love like there’s a challenge that no one else can solve, right? So like there are deals that other people like, ah, that’s not a deal. And then I see like here’s why it’s a deal or here’s how we turn it into a deal. So like for me I think the creative problem solving I think a lot of people were kind of like not cookie cutter but like they were on autopilot. >> Yeah. >> Right. But I think like you know myself and you know the the best like look at is like well maybe this maybe that and so on. So I think that’s probably something that investors over overlook. >> Okay. And you just I didn’t ask this question but I’m going to go now. This would have been my best question for me like that I’ve thought about for years. Okay. So when it comes to training people, right, consistency, right? So to your point of cookie cookie cutter, like I can we can train our sales people to run that system, MAO and all that stuff. But when I’ve been trying to teach people how to think creative, think about seller finance, sub 2, noation, all these different things, that’s when I’m like, can I standardize that? Can I teach people to do it? Because to me, it’s an intuitive knowing all this experience and then applying it. But man, what is the is there a is there a way to teach that in >> there is I mean I would say uh I haven’t figured it out but I know Joe Taylor has right Joe Taylor has got has got a phenomenal maybe the best trying to think across the country he probably has the best team in creative deal structuring like they buy creative deals all the time so him he’s the only one I can think off top of my head who’s like his whole team can buy creatively >> but even like systems like what just in a like a nutshell like how would you start to standardize guys and teach people to think create other than just training and say here’s five branches of ways you can go and >> I think it’s more about hiring the right people if that’s the goal is hiring the right people right there’s uh there’s the book working genius by Patrick Lancion where he’s got the working genius which is like you know wondering inventiveness discernment galvanizing enablement and tenacity the inventiveness is where the deal creative deal structuring is that’s where my brain lives right like someone says that’s a problem it’s like no here’s That’s how you solve it. And like it’s almost out of the box solution that no one’s ever thought of before, but it works, right? Like just come with the idea and it just works. So I think if you’re going to do that, you have to hire someone that’s a high eye on the uh working genius. >> Okay. Well, good. Well, there’s my selfish question for today, but other people intrigue. It’s been one I’ve thought about forever. It’s like, and I was told by so many sales coaches and sales guys like you just stop p them pitch creative because you’re going to confuse them and they’re going to divert and but I’ve always been like, but if they can get it, [clears throat] >> it’s powerful. >> Yeah. Matthew Simmons. Matthew Simmons in Pittsburgh. He standardized the creative deal offering as well. >> Okay, good stuff. All right, I got these lots of notes. I hope you guys are taking notes watching this when we come back to it. Good stuff. All right, number four. All right, we’re going to go deep here a little bit, Steve. >> Okay, >> and the first part’s a little easier. Second part you’re going to have to think a little more possibly, but if you could go back five years. All right, so Steve Train 2020, what’s one piece you would give advice you would give yourself, right? And give others. And now I want you then the second part is a little bit deeper. Now it’s 2030. >> What do you think your what do you think Steve training in in 2030 is going to still tell tell Steve today? >> So in 2020 the biggest mistakes I made was growing too big, right? And I always told myself I wouldn’t but I still did. And so the mistakes the lessons I wish I would have learned are the stuff that we’ve talked about in the whale club, right? It’s the stuff that I talk with, you know, Paul Sparks, Nick Pearson, Dan Nicholson is these principles of like how to minimize risk and maximize upside, right? Maximize potential. So, >> I was taking big bets that were going to do well or not, which is dumb, right? So, 2020, wish I would have taken more bets that had low upside, low downside, but high upside. And as far as 2030, man, we don’t know what the world is going to look like in 2030, like I am one of the when I talked amongst, you know, our friends, CG, masterminds, this and that. I think I probably have like the most darkest outlook on what the future’s going to look like for us due to AI. I think because of how deep I’m into AI and everything I see and the possibilities, I have the most dystopian outlook. So all I tell my wife is like look just let me work like crazy right now because I want to live in district one when we get to the Hunger Games. That’s that’s the goal, right? I want to live in district one when we get to Hunger Games because it’s going to get bad. That is my belief. It’s going to get bad. So 2030 I am not an optimistic person for all the society. Optimistic for myself, >> optimistic for, you know, people that are in our masterminds together, people that we can, you know, compare notes and like, hey Casey, what are you seeing here? What are you doing about this? But man, like outside of that, I am very nervous for our country, for our world with what with with what happens with AI. >> Wow. Well, that’s a great answer. I mean, it’s like, hey, so you know, you’re telling yourself today, I you answered it. I’m going to work really hard. What you told your wife, I’m going to work my tail off now so we can be in the best position we can when hits the fan. >> Yeah. >> Well, good. And then, oh, back to your though, back to your point. I want to highlight that again. We didn’t even get into some of that today, but like the asymmetric bets, guys. I’m going to I’m going to reiterate that one more time what Steve said like they call it right they call it like the dumbbell right so if you’re typically if we are taking high risk we take and I’m guilty of it too and I’m going to give myself that advice today and hearing it again from Steve >> guys take asymmetric bets you want to make the risk low high upside and it’s po and some of you guys might think that’s not possible right but um when you do yours of this you see that it is right Steve >> no I mean if you look at like the the classic example Richard Branson right he starts Virgin Airlines he goes Boeing. It’s like, “Hey, I want to buy 400 planes to start an airline. If it works, everything’s good. If it doesn’t work, you’re taking all 400 planes back and you’re not charging me anything. ” That’s an asymmetric bet. That is a bet where if it doesn’t work out, Boeing just takes the planes back. And if it works, he makes a lot of freaking money. >> That is asymmetric bet as you can get, >> right? >> How would you Let me ask this advice. So, as you work hard, you worked hard on your brand, Steve. You worked hard on doing deals, building companies, you can make more of those. How would you say somebody who’s just starting out can start to make asymmetric bets from the start? >> I think the biggest thing is surrounding yourself with people with the right character, with integrity. You know, you can tell a lot about a person if you are not in such a rush to do something. So like if you look at someone’s social media content, does that really pass a smell test or you’re just kind of like in a in a dazed state hoping this is true, right? Like if you look at like you know our worst mistakes is is is normally when our greed glands are the highest right there’s something like oh I’m going to miss out you got FOMO so those are when we make the biggest mistakes and so like I think you want to minimize your risk is like is this a decision that I would make over and over again have wise counsel the whole part where I talk about I go back to my team now what am I not seeing that you guys are seeing why might this be a bad idea now we got a collective input on whether this is the right decision or Because if I’m the only one seeing it and I have pretty good discernment, you know, according to the working of genius, but just because I think it’s a good idea doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. It just means that I can’t see why it’s a bad idea. And so I need my team, my leadership team to look at is like, okay, here’s why it’s a bad idea. Here are the things you didn’t consider. And every time, except for that whole AI idea, every time it’s like, well, you didn’t think about this. You didn’t consider this. Oh, yeah. Those are risks. Those are downsides. Okay, now we look at it. Here’s all the downside. Here’s all the upside. Should I do it? Should I do this or not? I mean, I’ll give you another example. This is a personal example, right? We went shopping this weekend for Christmas decorations, right? So, Vivian, she’s at the gym. She’s got private lessons. So, it’s me, my wife, Vivian, and Emily. So, we uh we’re going back to pick up Vivian. It’s my wife, Emily, and I in the car. My wife’s like, “Why don’t you take Emily to go look at the Christmas decorations and I’ll just go watch Vivian practice? ” Like, that’s not happening. She’s like, “Why not? ” I said, “This is a high risk, low reward for me. ” I go in here, I spend time, I pick the decoration, I bring it to you. It’s like, why the hell did you pick that? I got to go return. I got to go buy something else. I rather just go watch practice because that there’s no upside for me and there’s only risk. [laughter] >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. How’d it go? How did that How’d your wife respond? >> She knew I was right, so she didn’t argue. >> She didn’t. >> She’s like rolled her eyes, but she knew I was right. >> Yeah, man. There you guys go. Not only in business, in your relationships. Good stuff. Yeah, I’m with you. >> Many many of those situations were like my upside is so there’s no upside. >> No upside, only downside. Don’t do it. >> Good. Well, great stuff. That was a great way to wrap it, Steve. So, Steve’s been incredibly thank I’m incredibly thankful you came on here, shared all this. Steve, where could people find you if like you’ve obviously if people’s listening to this, they could see the power like what you you guys can only imagine what Steve’s built in his coaching sales program and what they’re doing with AI, but how could people find you and what if there’s interested in doing that, how do they how do they get a hold of you? >> So, the best way is if you want to hear what our appointment center sounds like, you can text AI caller, that’s two words, AI caller, to the phone number 3377. You want to check out our automatic call reviews, it’s objectionproof. ai. And then we have our podcast, Disruptors. You can find us on YouTube, iTunes, and Spotify. >> Love it. Yeah. Go check out the podcast, guys. Text that. I’ll put in the show notes so you have it. And man, thank you again, Steve. This guy got I hope you guys enjoyed this much as I did. Like so many golden nuggets. I hear every time I listen to Steve, I got it. And you guys got plenty today. So, thanks again, Steve. >> Yeah. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. You bet. If you’re listening to this because you’re chasing freedom, not just for yourself, but for your family, then don’t let this just be the background noise. Take action. Shoot me a DM. Reach out. Find a property. Make a call. Remember, small moves today create the life your future self and your family will thank you for tomorrow.