Rigs to Riches EP04: Ex-NFL Star Mark Nzeocha’s Playbook for Wealth (Flips, BRRRR, Section 8)

And we talked a lot about like some of those first duplexes he was buying. So, we’re going to be able to catch up on some of that stuff today and see where he’s gone. Cuz I think the most exciting thing I think Mark’s going to bring to you guys today because I’m sure some of you going to be like, “Oh man, I didn’t come from an NFL salary. ” But what Mark’s done is Mark has taken action and he was learning it while he was doing his W2 job, which is really cool. We’re going to talk about that today. Just like a lot of our other listeners who are probably listening to this podcast, still working their W2 with dreams of eventually leaving it and doing it full-time. So, Mark’s a good example. We’re going to share that today. But anyway, Mark, awesome to have you back, man. What’s new up there in Dallas? [laughter] >> First off, Casey, appreciate you having me on again. Um, what an intro. I appreciate the flowers there. But yeah, no, nothing much is new. Um, still grunting away, finding deals, looking at deals all all day, every day, and um, you know, making it happen, trying to make it happen in the real estate world. >> Awesome, man. When so many places to start, but let’s let’s do give the listeners kind of a summary. Talk about when you first started thinking about real estate, right? because as I just alluded to, you were I remember you telling me conversations like in the locker room thinking about getting into real estate, but kind of walk me through before you ended up leaving your W2. >> To summarize, um so I played in the NFL for 7 years, my last year or like I officially decided to hang up the cleats, but like beginning of 2023 and yeah, to your point, real estate’s kind of always been something, you know, that was fascinating to me early on. That must have been like 2015 16 when I first kind of got into and as cliche as it sounds I kind of got into all those HD TV shows that kind of got me hooked. I was like oh my god that’d be so cool to flip a house you know um obviously being oblivious to the to the process but always you know was fascinated by the before and afters by the process of like you know taking something that might be ugly to some and like really seeing the vision and turning into something beautiful and someone would appreciate that always is something that just kind of caught me. But yeah, to your point, like there’s a lot of guys who are kind of interested in that as well in in the in the athlete realm, but it took until I actually was retired to actually, you know, to make that leap and actually take action, you know, like before that was a lot of talk. It was locker room talk like, hey, this would be cool and and and rentals and and multifamily and all that stuff. It was all cool and we talked about that quite a bit. But yeah, it took until 2023 after I was officially done to take that official first step and actually bought my first uh rental property back then and yeah, haven’t looked back since and and just been trying to like growing and scaling it ever since. >> Love it. Well, cool. Well, share one of the water cooler stories we’ll share and I think this is so cool because again our listeners are probably talking about this in their W2 maybe in their lunch break or whatever, but share some of those stories in NFL locker rooms about dreaming of doing real estate, >> right? Um, I mean the thing is in an NFL locker room obviously there’s all sorts of different salaries. You know, there’s the there’s the backup salary, there’s the barely being on the roster type of guy salary, and then there’s obviously the superstars. And I remember one specific conversation I had, it was in the sauna actually with uh Trent Williams. If people who don’t know him, he’s the starting left tackle for the 49ers. Obviously had a great career, very successful, very wealthy. And yeah, he talked about having uh multif family houses and I was like, “Okay, cool. ” Like, “What kind? ” Like, “Where at? ” He’s like, “Oh, yeah. I just closed on my fifth 100 unit door, like 100 unit complex. ” I was like, “Oh, wow. ” [laughter] So, he I was like, “Okay, that’s a little different from what I’m looking at. ” But just to see that everyone kind of is, you know, at a different stage, but everyone is at some level form wants to invest in in real estate. And that that kind of like kind of got me going, got the wheels turning and yeah, I don’t know. That’s kind of like how how it all started for me that I was like, “Okay, I got to take action. ” Like it’s like whoever you talk to at whatever level, it’s like, “Hey, you just got to jump in, right? ” And then like I said, like that was kind of the trigger to eventually saying, “Okay, let’s do this as well. ” >> Yeah. So cool, man. And we were talking before, but I want you to go a little bit more into detail on like like why real estate? Because again you guys sounds like it was a common theme you had with multiple other players and just other people that were like hey it wasn’t like everybody going to Bitcoin or something it would right I mean that was a conversation too but that’s that’s a talk for another day. But Kyle Yuschek he’s a fullback still for the 49ers as well. He was you know Harvard grad smart guy. He kind of early on told me too about his investments and you know he I think he was in the Airbnb space or like you know kind of fixer uppers but like long-term like buy and hold. He was kind of the one that’s like, hey, you know, kind of showed me even his numbers was very transparent, which was cool, but just the passive income, you know, and I was always very aware that the NFL is a great stepping stone, but it can also be, you know, it can be over at any any point in time, you know, not nothing is guaranteed, especially in in the NFL. So, to me, it was important to find something that could sustain my lifestyle after football, right? So early on I was like okay what can I do to invest some of my money into cash flowing asset that would you know generate income on the passive side right and that’s really what what got me into it and yeah like I mean I could name so many names but like there’s a lot of teammates who kind of would think it along the ways but you know never really took action that that’s the big thing you know like there’s a lot of conversation going but like to finally pull the trigger I mean that’s a whole different story but but yeah that’s kind of like that was the main goal behind getting actually into real estate you know like once Yeah, also like I I get a lot of fulfillment out of it too. Like now doing flips and like seeing the end product is great, but the main goal to begin with is like yeah, let’s create passive income and cash flow to, you know, support the family. >> Love. Great. So last one before we get into kind of the real estate journey again back still you’re playing in the league, right? Playing in week in week out. You just mentioned there were a lot of people talking about it but not everybody taking action. And again, I think this answer will relate to anybody in any industry, but what do you think was the difference between the guys talking about it to the guys that actually did it and took action? >> Ah, that’s great question. I think a lot of indecisiveness, like not really like, you know, wanting to invest, but not being willing to put in the work of like educating yourself. I think that was a big one. That was a big one for me at first is like, yeah, on the surface level it sounds great, but I don’t know anything about it. I don’t have a mentor, someone I could like re reach out to and say, “Hey, can you kind of like talk me through this? Can you kind of take me under your wing and like kind of maybe show me this business a little bit? ” I think that plays a role into it. And then just also being preoccupied like I mean a season takes a lot out of you, right? So it’s hard to really like focus on anything else while you’re still active, you know, and I think that is one of my biggest I mean on quote unquote regrets to not earlier jump in, right? Always saying, “Okay, I’m still playing. I’m still active. ” You can still in the offseason you have plenty of time to like educate yourself or like you know take some real estate classes or like go to meetings and all that. That is still an option but I feel like for a lot of people it’s just like hey I’m I’m 100% focused on ball right now. Let’s focus about you know after after football later. >> Yeah. Love that though and I’m it’s you have the similar regrets as everybody else right. I wish I would have started sooner even everything you had going on. >> That’s what it is. >> That’s good. Okay so let’s talk about the transition. Right. You went you retired. I’m curious on your decision of how you knew, you know what, I’m going all in. I’m going to start doing this versus maybe what other people would do. Maybe other people would have just coasted or maybe other people are like, I got to go get a regular W2 job. But how how does your decision come into play? >> Yeah. So, I knew I wanted to be in real estate in some shape or form, right? So, I was like, okay, where do I start? I had made some connections, you know, being um a former Dallas Cowboys still living in the Dallas area. So, I was like, you know, I knew I knew a few people. one of my buddies have he owns a real estate brokerage and he’s like, “Hey, why don’t you, you know, come try it out, come work for me. ” I said, “Okay, might be an entry point. ” So, I actually got my real estate license and went to work as a residential agent for a little bit. Figured out pretty fast, um, you know, within like 6 months or so that that is really that’s not for me, you know, I just wasn’t my cup of tea, which is good, right? it’s at least you know but I during the same time I I started buying my first duplex and you know running the numbers um starting to hire some random contractors to to fix some things up. I learned like okay on the investment side of things that is something that gets me excited that that is um something like I really could see myself and that’s really the the starting point for me where I said like okay being an agent isn’t for me but on the investment side that’s something I could see a you know a potential and then um and then that’s what I did right then I ran with that. >> Nice man and then from there you did you immediately start buying rentals or when did that come into play? Yeah. No, that was actually during the the the same time frame that during the first 6 months. Um, while I was an agent, I bought I bought my first rental. Like I said, I started doing some rehab work on that. That’s where actually where I met some of my contractors that some of them I still work with today. Yeah. I mean, I just I just kind of like and I’m telling you how it is like just it just it was the whole still from the back of my mind 5 years prior the like the HGTV mindset of like, man, I want to I want to, you know, fix something up. I want to make something pretty out of it. And I eventually just pulled the trigger. Like I honestly, and Casey, I’m not lying. Like I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea about numbers, how to run cap rate, none of that ROI. >> It’s just like, hey, this is a long-term hold. It was a, you know, a wholesale deal. Did the numbers make sense? I not really, probably. But, um, as long as you hold it long enough, you know, eventually you’d be you’d be okay. Like, and that’s what I did. And and honestly, looking back, I still I still have that property. Um, it’s been probably 3 years now and it’s still it’s still good. >> Yes. This is such a cool story, Mark. I remember again Mark was reaching out and he was like, “Hey, Casey, what do you think? ” You were asking me like, “Hey, what do you think about these wholesalers? What do you think about this deal? ” >> Right. >> What I loved about your perspective was you’re like, “You know what, Casey, as long as if I create any value add in this thing, I think you were probably like, that’s bonus, right? I could hold this asset just purely as a buy and hold investment and if I if that’s the only way I win, I still win, right? But you probably I’m assuming because you created value, you won in other ways. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. And that’s obviously the name of the game, too. Obviously, I live in a I live in an area that is been at least for the last I don’t know how many years, but it’s been appreciating, right? It’s it’s a very popular booming area. So, and that was my mindset, too. It’s like as long as I don’t buy a terrible deal and, you know, I do some improvements to it, I’ll be okay in the long run. You know, it’s not like I’m I’m going to try to flip this property. No, it’s going to be a buy and hold. Yeah. And that’s exactly what I did. And then I funny thing is a few months later after I have uh that my renters’s in there. I got it appraised and it appraised for way more than I thought and I used the DR loan and pulled all the cash I had put into it back out. So, it was actually a big win. So, in that So, I still haven’t cash from an asset asset and yeah, I’m in it for no money. So, that was a great uh example of the burst strategy right there. Oh yeah, that’s so cool. What I love too, Mark, is you took that passion, you’ve said it a couple times about like the value or just the maybe the intrinsic part that you loved about fixing up a property and seeing the transformation, but you weren’t just like, I’m just going to be a fix and flipper. You’re like, I know long-term wealth is built through buy and hold. So, you combine the two, which you talked about the birth, right? You’re creating value, refinancing, and keeping the asset. Wow. So, so keep walking through like how have you kind of built your portfolio in those three years doing that? >> Right. Right. I just bought a couple more along the way. Uh bought and kind of just the numbers look better on on duplexes, multif family. So I bought a couple more duplexes along the way, but then uh eventually I got to the point it’s like, “Hey, I want to I really want to try do a fix and flip and didn’t really know where to start. I I talked to a couple of my my realtor friends. I say, “Yeah, I can I can look for you. Like Dallas is a good area to flip. You know, in the in the North Dallas area, there’s some higherend homes. ” And I wanted to get into the higherend homes just for the fact that there’s less competition. And uh and then yeah, that was when was that? Like I I didn’t I only fixed like I flipped my first home. It’s only about a year and a half ago. And I kid you not, that first flip it was I mean, oh my goodness. I It was unreal. Like and it was one of those things I just like I just jumped in. You know, she said, “Hey, the realtor’s like, “Hey, this is there’s a good spread on it. Make some money. ” It was in an area where the AIV is probably in the million plus. And that was my very first flip. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was Yeah. It was It was a big one with a rehab budget of like over 200,000. And I’m talking moving wall. I’m talking about rewiring the whole house, replpluming. It was It was a cast iron plumbing. So, I had to re replplum with PVC piping the whole nine yards. Like it was a fourmonth project. Um at the end of the day, I mean, I I was lucky cuz through the process I met my now business partner. Yeah. It was one of those things. It was the best learning experience I could have I could have I could have had cuz I was thrown in the fire. It was a huge project. And yeah, we we ended up, you know, I made a little bit of money, not a lot to be honest. You know, it was it was very risky for how high a price point it was and for how much money I put in, but the learning is just like priceless. So that’s kind of how that’s we went. And then yeah, now we actually doing flips as a bread and butter. You know, don’t get me wrong, like the the rental side is still very very much uh the plan for the long term, but right now the market here um like we we just talked about it um high property taxes, uh high insurance rates, the buy and hold in rental market in Dallas is not the greatest or Texas in general. So, um, we kind of focusing on the fix and flips right now and I’ve actually decided just recently to get out of state on with the with the rentals and build uh, yeah, build a rental portfolio out of state. >> Cool, man. Let’s dig in more there. We were talking beforehand about Yeah, we both So, I’m in Houston. Mark’s obviously up in Dallas and he we’re seeing these same challenges, right, of making buy and holds work and wondering about sustainability. Great. We’ve gotten great appreciation, which I do love what you’re doing. I love you’re taking advantage of the flips and you’ve learned a ton there. But yeah, talk about like what’s driving you to go look in other markets and what do you what do you actually I want the listeners to put your themselves in your shoes right now living in Dallas. You mentioned Alabama, but how are you starting to get comfortable with outside getting outside of the state? >> Yeah, like you said, um I’ve been looking into uh investing in in Alabama just for this. There’s a few factors. I mean, it’s the entry point is way lower. Property taxes insurance much lower. it’s still in not in close enough proximity if something would have happened you know I I could be there right and then the reason I really got into that market is uh been approached by a business partner about uh the potential of investing into a section 8 housing which is you know government substituted housing for for low-income people which is a huge market and we’re talking in Alabama you can buy houses for anywhere between I mean I’ve been I’ve been researching from like 30,000 up to 80,000 maybe 100,000 for um three fourbedroom house, right? And um on that section 8 Yeah. And on a section 8 program, you see rents going for 13,400 for a $100,000 investment, right? So, I mean, the numbers just make sense. But, you know, out of state, in case you know that best, like if you invest out of state, you can’t do it without the right team in place. And I’ve been looking into this process for a while and I’ve been vetting different people and I’ve um actually joined this training program with this guy who’s been doing it for a number of years and he has everything in place from the realtors to the lenders to the construction crew like you have to have rock solid team in place otherwise you know out of state doesn’t work and you know like just going through the process of vetting them and and and educating myself and and watching hours and hours of YouTube videos and you know talking to people I felt comfortable enough to go that step and like, you know, joined his program and now actively looking to close on my first deal down there, >> man. Cool. I love how you’ve you talk a little just go a little bit further though, Mark, on the Yeah, you mentioned like investing out of state and having a good operator. What have you kind of looked for and how are you feel are you kind of trying to mitigate that risk? >> To me, it comes down to like obviously track record. It comes down to like, you know, how long you’ve been doing the experience and all that, but I’m a very much of a I’m a I’m also I’m a people person. So, how how does the interaction between us work, right? Like had multiple conversations um zoom calls with him and just talk me through your process. Um just what type of person are you, right? Are you high morals? Like just what is what kind of guy are you? And that is important to me, you know, someone I’m doing business with, you know, I don’t want to do business with anyone with um with everyone, you know, it just it’s got to be a match, right? And obviously I got to be a match as well, you know, that goes both ways. And those are definitely big factors for me. And I think it was just something that was a good match, you know, from my side and and I think he agreed with that and so we decided to go ahead and do that. And I think I mean I don’t know that’s something I definitely prioritize in business. >> Yeah. All right. I’m going to go a different direction on this, but kind of piggyback off this as far as I feel like you’ve been able to you’re now taking bigger moves and a little bit more risk. >> So if you guys do go back, I’ll be sure and put the link in the show notes of my first call, my first podcast with Mark. Mark’s an incredibly dynamic guy. We could go for two hours, but I’ll give you the cliff notes again. came from grew up in Germany, right? Came to Wyoming, played football again, had the NFL career. But I remember you saying when you first kind of were while you’re still in the NFL and when you first started, you were pretty conservative with your investments. Oh, yeah. Right. In general. So, what’s kind of helped you? What’s kind of shifted that and caused you to be like, hey, what flipped the switch for you like, hey, now I’m going to go take some bigger moves? >> That’s a great question because it’s like now nowadays, man, like it’s just back then it was like, man, I can’t have debt. I I don’t I don’t you know very very to your point very conservative and now if I think about it right now I have literally millions of dollars in debt right now with all the houses we have out there. It’s just like one of those things I feel like you learn and just you learn to take calculated risk right but yeah just over the time experience cuz it was I was one um I still have probably the majority of my money in the in the stock market. I got to got to be you know honest there too. But I also max out the amount of money I can borrow against my money in the market, right? Cuz I can borrow against my own money again way better rate than any bank could ever give me. And this just became one of those things that I I I don’t want to trust just on on on the market. I want to be in control of my own, you know, money and my own wealth and and and creating something. So, it’s just something I learned. I got to I don’t have a better answer, but it’s like >> it’s really one of those things. It’s like you trust in your own ability. you trust in in, you know, doing a great job in flipping this home and or like making sure you buy at the right price, get a renter in and being able to, you know, do a DSCR loan or a cash out refi and and and pull that money back out and then pay back that loan, right? You just trust in your ability to create that value. I think that’d be a good answer. >> Yeah. Love it. And I think too, just knowing you, Mark, it’s the confidence, right? when you you were learning it, but then you mentioned you went through the battles, you got the you went through through the school of hard knocks on that flip you mentioned where you learned it, right? But now you had confidence, you’ve done the deals, I assume, just like being on the playing field, right? As you got more confidence, the player became, >> man, and now you’re doing big moves in the investment space. So, love it, dude. Cool. I want to ask you this one, though. What do you feel like, and maybe I answered it for you, but I’m sure you got other ones. What do you feel like cuz this is again anybody’s W2 like I’ve there’s a lot of things I’ve taken from my career at Shell, right? It was a very process driven company and I’ve I’ve implemented a lot of that into my investing career and my company. But what’s kind of one of the biggest takeaways you took from the NFL that you now apply today in real estate, >> right? >> Oh, damn. That is great question. Very much like to your point, it’s a process driven league. It is one that if you do not put in the work, someone is behind you trying to take your job from you, right? though it’s like it’s just that a relentless work ethic to get better, right? And and do never never be complacent. So I’m like very relent.

I’m very restless if I don’t have something to do, right? So every day is structured where I’m like, okay, first couple hours of the day I’m either networking or I’m looking at deals. I evaluate deals, right? So it’s very much like I I have to have a process in place. Otherwise, there’s the saying like athletes do like you either get better or you get worse, right? So I’m always trying to stay ahead of the ball, right? and and trying to get better that way. >> Heck yeah. I should have known. I figured that was the answer. I love it, man. >> Talk too about your your routine now, right? You’re out of the league. You’re still in great shape, though. I’m assuming it’s the same kind of routine from workout. So, you mentioned prepping, training, right? >> Or I mean, training your brain more so now, but talk me through your daily routine. >> Yeah, I mean, I’m sure you’re the same way like just I need to work out just to keep my, you know, sanity just like, you know, with the kids, you know, I have three kids now, so there’s a lot going on. So, like if I get up at 5:00 in the morning, I just have a few hours to myself. I just nice little routine in morning. I hit the workout. Thankfully, I have a home gym. So, I just have to step out in the garage and, you know, get my workout in. Then about bus 7, the kids wake up, you know, I have a couple about an hour, you know, family time, and then I jump in the office and then I have stuff scheduled throughout the day like from meetings to check the job site. What else do I do? um you know a lot of like LinkedIn connect with local you know lenders other investors or you may be like I’m just trying to like just grow myself in this business and be get getting deeper into this Dallas market in any way I can love it today >> and it seems simple to me people like me and Mark but if you guys are listening to this and you’re not like Mark just hit on it and I’m going to repeat it he mentioned that time from 5:00 a. m. too. What time your kids wake up, Mark? >> About seven. >> Seven. Yeah, me too. That’s the like sacred. Isn’t that one of the best times a day? [laughter] >> Not that not that we don’t love our kids, but like 5 to 7, it’s like our time to get ahead. And I’m sure you’re probably ready to be a dad at 7 a. m. and you’ve got that stuff behind you. >> Absolutely. >> I love it, man. One of the biggest life hacks. >> Mhm. No doubt. But yeah, that’s it. And then, um, you know, I do a bit a lot involved with the kiddos. I coach the kids sport, my son’s soccer team, and my my my older son’s flag football team. I do all that stuff, too, which is awesome. You know, I know you talk about this, like the freedom real estate gives you. Love that part of it. So, you can kind of be just structure your day the way you want it. And those are big reasons, too. I want to be in this field just so I can be there for my kids and and the sports, which is, you know, a big passion of the whole family is big into big into sports. >> Heck yeah, man. We can resonate with that big time. And I’m sure a lot of other people are, right? Everyone’s got kids whether it’s their sporting events or whatever they want to be there for. There’s stuff they want to be there for, right? And again, that’s why we do this podcast. We talk about creating that. So, man, another one Mark, I think you’re really great to answer this question, right? Kind of talk about the balance or maybe the diversification you have in your portfolio because again, I remember talking to you when you’re in the league, it was more focused in maybe the stock market, other ways, not as much real estate. What’s that look like today? because you’ve got and you mentioned what I love that you’re doing is you’re leveraging against the your market the your stock portfolio to buy real estate but what’s your kind of mix look like >> if I how to boy oh that’s a great question if I would have to put a number on it I probably man I might be deeper into real estate right now than we talked >> philosophy like tell me your philosophy because I think people who listen to this they’re going to like they probably got all their money in the market maybe right now and nothing in real estate or maybe they have a balance but what’s your philosophy >> to me it’s like It’s it’s just for especially in the market I I invest in, I think it’s as hard as it is, it’s I think it’s more stable. I really I really do believe so. Um I mean obviously we just got hit with these uh tariffs and stuff and stuff like that. It’s just not affected. It doesn’t affect real estate the way you know the stock market does. An opinion doesn’t affect the housing market as the real estate um as the the stock market does, right? It’s a lot of these huge swings come based of you know projections and and opinions a lot of times which is like hey real estate it’s something I can touch it is there it is for the most part very stable so that’s something that was like hey like I can wrap my mind around that right versus the market you know it’s it’s still very much you know a part of our investment plan and strategy but it’s just something slower and slower where we like you know twisting or like not twisting but moving towards the real estate just for cuz the more confident and the more of, you know, quote unquote an expert I get about real estate, I feel more and more comfortable of like putting the majority of my money behind that as well. >> Yeah, man. Good. It’s a just a cool story for other people to go along that journey, man. So, I appreciate you sharing that, Mark. >> Oh, absolutely. >> I want to I want to go back a little bit because you were talking about networking, right? And you’ve talked about like Cowboys Club and some of the stuff you’ve done. What’s what’s that going to look like with you right now to build relationships and because I love how you’ve I think that’s one of the biggest reasons you’ve grown as well. >> Yeah. And honestly, I mean, it’s in the real estate business or in like really any business, like relationships are the most important thing, you know, like you only go as your team goes or like you only go as as someone else goes who’s who’s already done this or like mentors you like. So, it it is to me it it’s big time, you know. So I try to like at least a couple times a week you know get someone e either on the phone have a have a meeting or you know have a coffee date lunch date whatever it may be and just talk a lot of times it’s not even about business this is just about like you know I mentioned earlier like I I’m very much into the human aspect of this business too right so get to know other people who are in the same space and see like hey how can I potentially be of value to you and maybe vice versa and then you just build relationships and then eventually you never know how that might be beneficial to to both of you. So, yeah, that is huge to me, you know, in terms of like banking, lending, even contractors, other potential business partners. No, that’s huge part of of my daily routine of just like reaching out to other people who doing the same thing or like people I aspire to be like cuz they’re doing it on a higher level than I am. >> Yeah, man. That’s good. And you mentioned partners, right? And you talked earlier about what you look for in a partners. you kind of mentioned like just are they a good person sort of integrity but what are some other kind of ways that you or maybe hacks you found about figuring out cuz sounds like you’ve created some great partnerships. How do you how do you qualify them? >> Right. So I have one main partner right now who is my um we we flipping houses together. So it’s a it’s a 50-50 partnership. We we have uh an entity together and everything. And honestly that was just it just clicked. It just just happened in my first flip. You know the big one I talked about. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have done this. I probably wouldn’t even be in the industry anymore if it wasn’t for him cuz he was recommended by our lender. It’s like, “Hey, I have another guy who who’s one of our best clients and and you know, he does a ton of flips. ” It’s like, “Why don’t you like, you know, have him look over this project for you? ” And he did. And you know, he kind of geded a little bit, you know, kind of like helped me like some layouts cuz we moved all sorts of walls and all that. He kind of helped me out and I say, “Hey, this is this is something that might work, right? ” Not only on the business side, but like it’s really like, you know, we hang out. We we talk like we’re friends, we buddies. Like it’s it’s just that is almost as important to me as your expertise, right? Obviously, you you need to know what you’re doing, right? You got to you got to come with the knowhow. You got to come with the work ethic cuz we can’t be not on the same page when it comes to hey, how much work we putting in and how how where we want to take this business, right? It has to be something that aligns and and no, that between him and I that just that just clicked. And you know we we’ve done some bigger projects where we actually brought in a third partner and then we go through the same vetting process you know like there might be something we already worked with before and just happens that way too. So um yeah like I mean definitely you know you got to know what you’re doing in the field but you also have to be you know from an integrity standpoint you know aligned. >> You bet. And I feel like knowing you too it’s it’s all about the long game. I just know for example with us like me and Mark were talking years ago on maybe doing deals together in Wyoming. your interest in that market, right? Because I think it was from fix and flips to buy and holds, right? To eventually like me and Mark stayed in touch on like deals we were doing and eventually you ended up doing a deal with us on one of our bigger multif family. But I feel like tell me if I’m wrong, but feel like it’s probably the consistency of right getting to know somebody, seeing them show up, getting to see them do in deals over and over and then eventually when timing is right, it’s probably an easy decision, huh? >> That’s exactly what it is. And I’ll tell you with you especially, I just know your track record. you know, I know how, first of all, how long you’ve been doing, how well you’ve been doing it. And then this deal, I don’t even know if you presented it to me, but you know, I I had, you know, I had my people look over it, but it was one of those things. It’s like I just wanted their sign off cuz I already knew if okay, if that’s a deal that you personally vouch for that I can trust you cuz I know you’ve been doing it, you’ve been putting in the hours, the work that it’s something that’s going to be successful. And that comes with, you know, with building relationships, right? with knowing someone over years and you know following their work and like just being able to to count on someone in that way. >> Yeah. And the last one I’ll just summarize. Trust but verify. Right. Mark trusted but he used his professionals his network to go verify. Right. Right. That’s a great tip. >> Absolutely. >> Good stuff Mark. All right. Well see before we get into our final questions I want to ask you though I remember we talked the first time a little bit about your purpose and like kind of where you’re going with all this. Like what is I want to hear a little bit more in your words like what is your why? Why are you pushing? Cuz again, some people might have been like, “Hey, I’ve got enough money. ” I mean, you probably had enough money when you left to where you could live a modest life and keep doing your thing, right? But what is your purpose? What keeps you to drive and waking up every day building, taking out leverage to magnify? [laughter] >> Right. Right. I think we kind of touched on that. It’s just like just being never really not satisfied, but like don’t want to be stagnant. Don’t want to like always want to constantly improve myself, you know, learn something new. I think that is the huge driving factor. And then obviously it’s my family, right? I have three little ones. I have a six, a fouryear-old, and and almost one-year-old. I also want to be a good role model to them, right? Like it’s I don’t want to be one of those dads who’s like, you know, getting out of shape or like, you know, not let not doing something purposeful with their lives, right? So that was never a question to like, you know, just after football just just retire in that sense and just don’t do anything. It was always like, hey, what what’s the next thing, right? Like I always see the NFL as a as a great stepping stone. and it set us up very well. But that was never the plan to just just have that on the resume, right? There was always something like, “Hey, what is the next step after that? ” >> Oh, yeah. For sure. I wouldn’t doubt it. Would not doubt it. Well, cool. [snorts] Mark, this has been good. These last four questions though, I’m really excited to hear your answers based on your perspective. So, let’s start off here. Number one, if you lost it all today, what is the first thing you would do to start to build it back? >> Oh, say that’s a deep one. Okay. Uh, put me on the spot. If I lost it all, honestly, I would leverage the relationships I made over the years. You know, I think I I build deep enough trust. We we kind of touched on that where I could hopefully get some sort of, you know, like I don’t know, a loan or whatever and and and start new and I would stick to what I know how to fix up a home, how to, you know, flip a home and and and just start that whole journey over. But I think the the main thing is really like the relationships. Count on those people that uh you counted on along the way. >> Yeah, absolutely. You could take a lot away from you, but try to take away your relationships. And even if not, even if you did, you you’d be building them back the exact same way. >> Love it. All right, cool. Number two, uh, what’s one deal you’d never do again, and why? And it doesn’t have to be real estate. Could be any any deal. >> Oh my god. Oh goodness. I mean, I had some deals where I actually lost money. Like u like it was just like a scam. So, I don’t know. I I feel like I stick to real estate. I mean, I got to say, knock on wood, like I haven’t had like horror deal where I everything went wrong. Like, yeah. Have we lost money on a couple deals? Absolutely. You know, you can’t avoid that. You know, you can’t win them all. But I think there was a few deals where I kind of like my my my contractor, for whatever reason, he wasn’t available. And then I hired someone that I didn’t know I hadn’t vetted. Just hired him cheap because, you know, we’re already over budget. And then I got absolutely screwed. You know, there’s a couple times where they like run off with the deposit money, right? Stuff like that. So, I can’t p pinpoint like one deal, but I can pinpoint me doing, you know, stuff not the right way and by hiring someone I don’t know, you know, and let them walk on my project and and and screwing me over. I think I I I will never do that again. >> Yeah, good one. Well, always appreciate people who are willing to share the the hard ones, right? Those are the wins are easy to share, right? Right. >> Cool. All right. Well, what’s number three? What is one thing that you do that you feel like most other investors overlook? You know, I think to me I’m very much a attention to detail kind of person. You know, I mean the name of the game in flipping is a lot of times just like in and out as fast as you can and the faster you sell obviously you you save on some interest and all that. But to me a lot of times it is worth to take a little extra time and maybe buy the nicer tile and you know the attention to detail and get the finishes just right cuz I you know it’s it’s also it’s kind of like my brand. I like to make it nice and I think in the end in the long run actually I think it’s going to pay off because it’s sells faster. You know, you build a reputation that you have a good product. So I think one thing I do that my others might not is like really pay attention to the details. >> Yeah, man. Great point. Not everybody has that that skill set, but love that you you built it out. Cool. Well, the fourth one’s my favorite. I like to have people look again. I want you to look fiveyear. The first one’s a little bit easier. Like if you could go back and tell yourself Mark 5 years ago when he’s still in the league, what would you tell him today, what what’s some advice you would give him? Right? But then second part is a little harder, right? I want you to try to picture in five years, right? So we’re 2020, you now Mark who’s got a big portfolio doing section 8, doing all this stuff across the country. What’s that Mark gonna give today advice? >> Okay. Okay. Five years ago, obviously I tell them it’s like get in the game, make a couple good plays on the football field, right? But then also, no honestly, and I think we kind of touched on it earlier, is just like get going, right? Like, you know, even back then, I was I was talking about it, but I hadn’t taken the action yet, right? To like educate myself um and taken steps to like, hey, set yourself up before, you know, once the career’s over, right? Get get in the game, right? Or like even like passive, you know, get in a syndication deal or whatever, right? Like just get going. Like that’s really the name of the game, right? When it comes to real estate. But then yeah, for my future self, what would that tell me today? It I think it would be along the lines of scale, scale this thing, right? Partner with the right people cuz we are in the process of actually getting into new builds as well. At the same time, we are doing a couple other businesses just to complement what we’re doing on the flipping side. We want to do a roofing company. We we’ve actually done we just started a couple months ago, but we’ve done like 10 roofs so far. Like it’s just something just build that bigger, right? like have the big vision I think or like great job on that vision and then yeah I think it it’d be one of those things just like you know just again take the leap and good job that you did. >> Heck yeah. It’s similar it’s similar advice, right? 5 years ago get started and now you’re just saying hey have >> confidence. Exactly. Probably 10 years from now it’s going to be the same thing. It’s like hey get going. You know you have these ideas in your head. I mean to that point you know I want to eventually I want to get into lending as well. I have some connections there and one of my buddies is a hard money lender and he said he he got started with less than you think and he’s doing really well in that business and that’s something that eventually down the line I would love to get into as well and you know I’m sure 5 years from now it’s like hey you should have got into it 5 years ago. >> Yeah. You should have been lending first. That’s right [laughter] progression right eventually stop being having to do all the hard work and now that you know how to underwrite deals become >> Exactly. That’s really what it is. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, but a lot of possibilities. >> Well, good stuff, man. This been fun to catch up. I think your story is super relatable. As I said at the beginning, I thought people might think you they couldn’t relate to you, but I think a lot of people can see themselves in you in their W2 today and the steps you’ve taken and them. It’s just a cool example for them to show like from like 01 or like from leaving W2 to like now humming and going and now growing and scaling. It’s such a good example. But Mark, man, where could people find you if they want to reach out, have questions or want to partner on deals or send you send you section 8 deals? >> So, I have my wife actually, she’s running all our socials now. It’s at MCN_propies. That is our business page. That is on Tik Tok, Instagram, and then my personal is Mark um CN53 on Instagram, Facebook, you name it. Can reach out. >> Awesome. Well, good. He’s a I have a lot of respect for Mark. everything he’s done to this point and he’s a family man. Does it all, man. Wakes up, gets his day started, and he’s going to consistently keep doing it, man. So, Mark, appreciate you coming on. >> We’ll wrap up with this, guys. >> Absolutely, Mark. All right. Now, if you guys are doing this for more time, more freedom, and more options. Don’t let this just be another episode. Take action. Remember, even small moves today create the life your family will thank you for tomorrow. If you’re listening to this because you’re chasing freedom, not just for yourself, but for your family, then don’t let this just be the background noise. [music] Take action. Shoot me a DM. Reach out. Find a property. Make a call. 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