Rigs to Riches Ep 10: Leon Barnes on Shifting from "The Grind" to an Unstoppable Mission

Welcome in to Rigs to Riches. Really excited about this guest today. Man, I’ll never forget the first I’ll save that story for a little bit later. First time I interviewed with Leon, but I’ve known Leon for man, we’re going on four years now, right? A huge a huge staple of the collective genius community. It’s the first guy I met when I got in. But aside from that, I’m excited to dive into a great father, a great coach, but also a great real estate investor. And I’m really excited to dive into the story of what I’ve known Leon through Collective Genius and what a ambassador he’s been for that and just a leader of that community. Another guy too, I’ll just say this, Leon, another fun guy to watch on stage and as I’ve worked on my craft to watch a guy who can really command a stage and engage people. So, so many good things I could start with you, Leon. But man, what uh why don’t you just start off with your background? I don’t know how I follow that, man. Thank you. You made me sound really, really great. three times I think you said. Thank you. I appreciate that case. It means a lot coming from you. You know, I really respect those in this space that have balance uh in their life and can be a great father and husband and do all the things that when we all started in this business, we all knew that we had to grind, but we’re all hopefully grinding to a point where we’re no longer doing that and having some balance. And you we were talking pre-show. You’re able to do a lot of that. So, I appreciate the kind words in the introduction. You know, I I’ve been on this side, as you said, with Collective Genius. I’ve been associated for 11 years. I joined as a as a member. I was still an employee at the time, and we’ll get into all that story in a bit, but I I went to work for a flipping company, and we heard of this group of elite investors that you can learn from, and we just barely got in. We qualified. I was like, “Yes, what is it? ” I have no clue what it is. Cuz I was coming off a corporate career. And so, I fell in love with it immediately. You know it. It’s when you have when you’re surrounded by people that re make help you realize what’s possible. You know, it’s that Roger Banister moment. They’re they’re all running sub4minute miles and you’re like, man, I’ve been running 430s. I didn’t even realize four 359 was was possible. And so I immediately fell in love with that high net worth, high character, great culture. So much so that I was like, you know, if I ever get an opportunity to be a part of this organization, I want to do that. And that’s now been seven and a half years that I’ve been on this side. So, I’m the longest tenur employee here with the Collective Genius. When I started, there were three of us. There are now 15 full-time employees that service and white glove service for real estate investors. Five over 500 across the United States and some foreign countries. Wow. Well, good. Yeah. So, I’ll I’ll quickly share that story. So, that’s Leon talks about interview. That’s the first time I met Leon four years ago. Still working my W2. Never forget that conversation. And Leon Leon had good advice, too. He’s like, “Hey, man. Everybody’s like, “Go jump off jump out of your W2 as fast as you can. ” And and honestly, that’s one of the biggest things I learned from you. And Jason and collective genius. And I say it all the time, right? It’s like like Jason said, it’s your your cash machine, right? Becoming creating massive what active income, I think he says, which one of the probably the best things I’ve tons of learnings from CG, right? being around the right people, like Leon just said, all those reasons. But to me, yeah, that was a different tune that I was hearing that I wasn’t hearing in like what say what you want about Bigger Pockets, right? It’s all about go buy as many rental properties as you can. And that’s kind of the mindset I had coming into CG. But then I’m like, no, you you’ve got to create a massive active income. Do you want to expand on that? Yeah. of the phrases that I learned from Jason, you know, 11 years ago and continue to be, you know, reminded of that on a weekly basis is the fastest way to passive income is a really high active income. And unfortunately, you know, you the what you hear the books that you read will say, you know, you’ll always be working for someone else unless you create your own wealth. And that’s, you know, there’s a lot of truth in that. But to get just rental properties does not equal freedom. it it does not equal uh passive. I mean that word is, you know, it’s the complete opposite of passive when you have rental properties and there just has to be someone that you know that that says no that yes there’s there’s situations in which that works time you know obviously timing is important but to just go out and buy a bunch of real estate unless you’re like you where you had high active income from your W2 very much a flexible schedule why would you leave that until you just absolutely had to. And that was my advice to you because when I first started this business, I thought a bunch of rental properties would give me freedom as well. And the reality is, yes, 20, 30 years from now, of course. But anytime soon, no. And so an high active income is the best, by far the best way to have a passive income in the future. Awesome. And we’ll go back to your story a little bit, Leon, but let’s keep diving in there, right? Because I sure again thinking about like a lot of our listeners are high W2 earners and they yeah they might be seeing this glorified like I want to leave my W2 I want to work for myself but let’s go a little bit deeper because I’m with you right if they are if they their best skill might be that W2 income and they can still do both right yes I’m I’m going to give your listeners a right now story that’s happening to me I have about 70 rental properties I live in Tampa Florida where the collective genius is based I call it my hometown. I wasn’t raised there, but when my adult home is Witchah, Kansas, and I have rental properties there. I have a partner there that helps me run day-to-day operations, and we have a property management division that once we got to 50 doors, we we started our own property management, brought it in house. And right now, currently, I’m going through I think we’re replacing 15 roofs. I think it might be more than that. When all said and done, big hail storm, as you guys know, in Texas and uh the Midwest, we’ve we get a lot of hail and wind and tornadoes and those type of things. And you know, I’ve owned most of my doors for seven plus years. Started buying them 11 years ago and it sounds great. 200 uh, you know, 200 bucks a door or 300 bucks a door or you know, I’m cash flowing those doors. Well, it just was one HVAC, right? We were just having this conversation with one of our younger employees here. He’s like, I’m buying my first rental property and we didn’t tell him no. We just said, consider this, right? I’m going through where I’m replacing 15 roofs right now. you know, and insurance doesn’t cover every single dollar of the replacement cost today. Insurance is a little different than it was 1015 years ago, right? And so, someone’s got to cover that. And generally, that’s your cash flow and your reserves that you’ve had over time. Thankfully, I’ve been holding on to those long enough that we can we can offset that. But at the end of the day, you know, everybody tells you, “Oh, it’s $200 a door. ” Well, that looks good on a spreadsheet until you have an HVAC go out or until you have a flooded basement or until you have busted pipes. We’re talking about cold weather right now in the Midwest, right? That’s the things that people don’t tell you in those books that, you know, you you want to have high level active income to build that passive income because who’s going to offset that cost when the rental the cash flow of those rental properties does not cover those big uh ticket items that come across almost every three, four, five years on on those rental properties. That’s the stuff that no one tells you until it happens. Yeah. So true. Yeah. Lived it many times. And thankfully I had the W2 when my was getting a call of my flooded basement in Wyoming. Exactly. They’re $2,400 a year when you put that math together. If it’s $200 a door sounds great on paper, right? But $2,400 does not does not cover an HVAC. $2,400 does not usually cover your turns when you have a tenant that moves out. So, yes, again, it sounds good on paper, but the reality is if you’re not going into that as a long-term retirement, long-term equity play, then you’re lying to yourself. And I hate to be the the bearer of bad news, but ultimately, it’ll be the bearer of good news, especially for a lot of your audience that are high net worth earners. Stay in that W2 for as long as you can because you’re much more bankable to buy more assets to ultimately give you more freedom, you know, down the line. stay in that for as long as you possibly can because it’s most people are going to tell you to jump as soon as you get the opportunity to jump. You’re not gonna hear that from me. Yeah, I would agree. Or myself either. Even though I lived it, I I I milked it as long as I could. Sounds like similar to you, huh? Yeah. I mean, it’s just something that I mean, I’m milking it today. Yeah. I’m milking it right now. I mean, and I say that I’ve been now with Collective Genius for seven and a half years. This is, you know, what I do full-time. Have I been continually investing while doing this? Yes. Do I leverage banks for financing and partners and employees? Absolutely. No different than than than you, Casey. You do it at a much higher scale uh than I do, but I continue to stay active in the business, but I’m doing that still to this day. Wow. Well, keep going to Yeah. So share the story and then I’d love for you as you share the story, share how you found that balance to be able to do both and do both highly effectively. It doesn’t happen overnight. I’ll go back. I was in corporate for 11 years. Uh I was in advertising sales. I’m going to date myself here because I sold print advertising before Google advertising was a thing. I got my first cell phone in 1999 and I remember it’s it’s crazy that how much things have changed over the years. I got my first cell phone in 1999. I learned how to type on a typewriter. Like that’s how much things have changed over the last 30, 40 years. I only say that because you know the way that I used to make money was selling print ads in a phone book. Like that that’s that’s how I started out in sales. But those that business-to- business experience gave me so much sales experience, operations exper building teams, hiring, interviewing, and once I got to a point where I was just burned out with corporate because it just was not fun anymore. It was just so, you know, I didn’t enjoy going to work anymore. Even though I had gotten all the way, I was running an office in Hawaii. I ran all the the entire state, the entire book of business. I was in charge of all of it at 35 years old at the time. At one point I was like, you know, I need I need to I need something different. I need something where I can go and be an executive and turn, you know, that that aircraft carrier much faster because of my decisions. I can’t do that in corporate anymore. I need I need a new challenge. So, I had met this uh flipper in Kansas where I’m originally from. He was finally at a point where he could hire somebody like me that, you know, was making more than anybody else that he had ever hired before, but he had been in the business for 10 years. He’s like, I need somebody to run the business because I’ve got some other things I want to do. And so I did that and that’s again how I got associated with Collective Genius. We were flipping about 50 at the time. We had just barely qualified, had about 125 doors. And I was running a team. We started out with three people and we got that team all the way up to about 12 by the time I left 5 years later. It was time. You know, a lot of people that are, you know, maybe listening to this that are considering hiring in the future. um you know I I don’t want to hire someone to just train them and and then leave. Well, in that fiveyear period that I was with that company, we tripled the business. Would that probably have happened without them? Probably not. So, both got something out of it. And I wanted to I wanted to do this on my own. Like there was something I wanted to challenge myself with. And so, I made that jump after 5 years in that. But I also still knew that I needed something W2-wise that was associated with real estate. And there were so many different options that were available at that point. But the collective genius just made total sense from a culture standpoint. So what I started out doing to answer long-winded your question about how to make that balance. Well, the first couple years I had to do it all by myself. So before I would handle consults, interviews and consults with people like yourself that were looking at is this a good fit for CG? Is this a good fit for them? I would do those consults usually from 8:00 a. m. to 5:00 p p. m. But at 6:00 a. m. I was on job sites, meeting with contractors, going through the work. I had any time, any given time, three to five projects. So I was flipping and also uh bur strategy holding those those assets. So I I was doing both, but I was doing it typically uh after hours. By the time I moved to Florida, which was five and a half years ago, I was doing that in the morning. I had now brought a partner on, a friend of mine that u was now a partner in the business and we had one employee because I had I was spending a lot more time in the collective genius helping grow the collective genius and I was a high assistant high school basketball coach so I had to leave early for for practice. So I had a bunch of things going on. So the the the long-winded answer is this. I did all the work until I couldn’t do it anymore and found very capable uh partners and employees to take those things off my task once I had developed the system to hand it off. Love it, man. And all about so many follow-up questions off that. First off, I should have actually done this better in the in the beginning, but collective genius is a mastermind I’ve been a part of, but actually Leon, you can give it in a better in a nutshell in a couple minutes like what Collective Genius is and when we say CG. >> Yeah, sorry. Yeah, the Collective Genius is a real estate investing peer-to-peer group or better known as a mastermind. We we call ourselves a community because we have the nation’s top real estate investors that come together three or four times a year, depending upon which level the real estate investor is at. Generally, most people are full-time real estate investors, unless you have a situation like Casey where he’s about to make that jump. He has such a flexible schedule that he basically has a full-time business and also working at W2. Generally, most people are full-time looking to grow and scale. People that just want to own rental properties, uh, and are okay with not necessarily having and running as a business. Typically, that’s not, you know, a good fit for for both sides. But these are people that want to be around other likeminded real estate investors. And when I joined this group 11 years ago, there was only one group. CG, Collective Genius, was one group. If you did 50 plus or at least $2 million of gross annual revenue, then you could qualify for the group. Didn’t mean you got in, but you could qualify. Over the years, we realized that there’s there’s levels to this. And so now we have four different tiers, over 500 members across the United States. People doing minimum 10 deals a year all the way up to businesses that are doing 2030 million a year. And so there’s there’s four different levels uh to the community. It’s just awesome when we come together. We get to get to break bread with people that are like-minded. We we play basketball. We play pickle ball. There’s all kinds of fun things that we do before the meetings. But really, everyone’s there to get better, not only as a as an entrepreneur, but also better as a human being because there’s a lot of great examples, Casey, as you know, there’s a lot of great examples of of great men and women that are doing life awesome that you want to be around. >> Yeah. Oh, man. We’ll get into that here in a second, but that’s Yeah. Many many benefits. And guys, yeah, I was on that same boat, right, when I first met Leon, applying, hoping I could potentially have the opportunity to be around these highle investors. And what I’ve liked too is yeah, just the levels, right? Like I came in at what was called at the time the select group, right? And got tremendous of value, right? And but before that, actually, how I don’t know if Leon even knows this. I was in another smaller mastermind which taught me how to wholesale, right? That was my first step. I invested 11 grand in a program, which at the time, my limited mindset was very skeptical. I’m like, I’m going to pay 11 grand for this coaching program, but these guys taught me how to build a wholesaling company. And they had they met four times a year, right? And it was actually Victor and those guys, the Victor and Yep. So, they were in >> I remember this is exactly how you came to us is how most of our members find out about us is from someone else. >> You were in the right place where you needed to be at that time. you were learning how to grow a business and then once you got to a certain certain point, Victor who was in that group with you said, “Now you need this group because you’re ready for the next step. ” I remember like it was yesterday. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. Exact story. Cuz like I was always kind of chas right and then I’d have another bar to kind of go chase. And not that you need to chase other people, but it was motivating. You saw they could do it. And then all of a sudden the next one they were gone. And I’m like, so immediately I text Victor and I and I’d seen him posting at a CG event. I’m like, Victor, where are you at, man? Like, what are you doing now? It’s like collective genius. So, I got hooked up with Leon and and joined it and it’s been tremendous. But then also, what I was going to say is like I came in select, but there was still another level that I could still see and and shoot for and set goals for. And >> yeah, and that’s now I’ve gotten there, and now there’s even another level above that. So, I I love how it’s just been a great way for entrepreneurs to grow. Well, you just summarized it really well on the type of individual that’s in the room. Nothing wrong with a business owner that says, “Hey, I just want to maintain. I’ve got a $2 million gross profit, $1 million net. I just want to maintain what I have and don’t want a big team. ” There’s a place in the room for that as well. But if you are truly someone that is motivated to grow, you know, not just from a financial standpoint that you want to be around better the right tribe, right? We are who we surround ourselves with and that’s where the whole mastermind concept came from hundred years ago, you know? So, you know, you’re in the room because you are not okay with staying the same. You want to continue to to to sharpen and get better. That’s what what you just said is exactly that. A lot of I get a lot of people that reach out to us and say, “Hey, I wasn’t referred by my buddy, but my buddy left this other group we were a part of, and I can see that he’s in this group. Now, I need to talk to you guys because if he’s in this group, I need to be in this group. ” >> Oh, yeah. They see the proof of it. >> Yeah, man. Let’s Leon, let’s go into the sort of the community part. I know you’ve had a huge part in growing that in collective genius, but like there’s tons of masterminds out there, right? But what do you feel like? Yeah. Setting that culture and and getting and how having all these like alpha males, all right, or females that are at a high level creating that culture where it’s collaborative. It’s pretty incredible. But I’d love to hear the behind the scenes how you guys curate that. >> Yeah, I give full credit to Jason who founded this organization 15 years ago. Everything starts at the top, whether it’s sports, business, whatever. the ownership, the founder really sets and dictates the tone. The employees uphold that, but the founder is the one that sets the tone. And the tone was started with Go Giving. The book, if you’ve never read it before, it’s one that I would encourage you to read. You know, it’s just a principle of giving value before you ever expect anything on the other side. And so, if you were going to be a part of this community, we talk about it in the consult. If you don’t have anything to give valuew-wise, we’re probably not the right fit for you. Because the the the lifeblood of this organization is is people coming in saying, “You know what? I don’t have everything figured out, but I have marketing figured out. I’ll bring that. That’s my dish for the potluck. ” Right? I’m not coming empty-hand. I’m bringing a bottle of wine or I’m bringing some food or something to the potluck. I’ve never actually described it that way, but that actually works. Um the you have to bring bring value because if you do that you’ll gain so much from a relationship standpoint. There’s so many things that you’ll gain by doing that. And so from day one it was said as go giving. So as people come in and they give value, they start to build relationships because someone says hey I need to talk to you about this and you said you don’t have hiring figured out but I have that but you have sales figured out. I I can help you with with that. And that’s that’s where it started from day one. And the people that you know are natural what we call peacockers. The people that are coming in and telling everybody how great they are generally that person is not a good fit for our community. And I say generally and here’s why. A lot of times people think they want to come in and do that and they might do that in other groups but when they come in here I don’t care how big you are. There’s somebody in this room bigger. And and I’m speaking specifically from a real estate entrepreneur standpoint. mostly single family, some multif family operators, some uh self- storage. We’re getting more and more of those individuals that only do those things. But from a single family asset standpoint, there’s somebody in this room that’s going to be bigger. I don’t care how big you are. Unless you’re an institution, there’s going to be somebody bigger in this room. So, it quickly we we give you go giving. That’s the culture. And then you walk in the room and you go, “Oh my gosh, I I thought I was the big dog. No matter what level I’m at, I’m coming in and I’m bottom. ” I had a conversation yesterday with a CEO member. He goes, “It’s the only room I’ve ever been where where I was at the bottom of the room. ” And he’s in a $10 million plus room. He’s like, “The first time I’ve ever been at that level. ” So that that helps, too. When you put good people in a room together and people doing business at a high level, even if they’re someone that that thumps their chest, they’re generally coming in this room being humble pretty quickly. >> Yeah. Good. All right. And then the next one I’ve been excited about going into is so like from a leadership standpoint and I’ve I’m just curious how that culture has been built and and maybe even examples you have of you living in your life, Leon, but from you to guys like Eric Brewer to like Jimmy Breland. These are like I was not expecting that when I joined Collective Genius of like being mentored on how to be a good dad, a better husband, right? But just these guys and just the way they lead. I mean that’s one of my favorite parts about the culture. Well, what we learned early on, I think when I first joined this group, everyone was a little younger, you know, so I’m now I’ll be 49 here in a couple of weeks, and the majority of the group are in their late 40s, early 50s now that were joined that were in this group when they were in their either late 20s or 30s when they first joined. And I think all of us kind of came up together and all of us came up together as fathers. Um all of us came up together as husbands and we all you know when you money is great and everyone started having success and wanted to make sure they were having the same success at home that they were having in business and I think we all kind of came up together and that’s again you you are who you surround yourself with. The best compliment I get, Casey, and I I humbly say this, like the best compliment I get is when a wife says to their husband, I’ve had this a couple times, and it kind of makes me emotional hearing it. When a wife says to their husband, “That’s the that’s the type of man I want you around. ” >> Like, that’s that’s the ultimate compliment. like when it’s myself and Eric and and Jimmy and Jason or Ren or and and and someone’s wife says, “This is the type of men I want you want you to hang around. ” Good fathers, good husbands, good leaders of of of people. Um, and so as we all kind of grew up, we started, you know, wanting to become the best example not only for our kids but also for our businesses because the people in this room want to grow and scale their business and you cannot, I repeat, you cannot do that unless you are a A+ leader or or working towards it. A players will not follow B and C leaders. I’ll say that again. A players that you’re trying to target, you’re trying to go after will not follow B and C leaders at least long term. Shortterm maybe long term, no, they will leave you. So Eric really started us on this journey where he was, you know, started and you started reading a book a week and just really presenting and and there there was a shift specifically for our select level group, Casey. When that group started five and a half years ago, five five and a half years ago, whatever it is now, when that group started, we realized there was a bunch of 20somes in there making millions and they were like, man, I really really want to grow this. but they weren’t the type of business owner, founder, leaders that they needed to be. And that’s really where that kick started was helping the younger generation understand that yes, money is great, but if you want to sustain something and double and triple your business and have happiness with it, it’s going to take more than just hiring operations, systems, and processes. leadership is going to be the number one thing that you as a founder are going to have to focus on the next 5 to 10 years to grow the business to what you want it to be. >> Wow, man. That I never knew that story and it just makes sense. And even so, I came in again about three or four years ago into it. Yeah. And you could feel it and I guess you couldn’t really point to it, but once you were in there for a while, you could feel it. >> You know what’s interesting is that we can always tell when someone is ready for the message and when they’re not. like uh sometimes we get feedback of man I I I just need the practical tactical man I I I don’t need as much of the leadership right now. So my favorite things are when you guys talk about marketing and you talk about hiring you talk about systems and processes and operations >> and I it’s just not it’s timing is all about timing, right? I’m what we try to do in this community is balance obviously with what people need and and what they want and what they need. And the medicine that we’re feeding everyone in every level is what I said earlier is if you are stuck and you’re just being the same leader that you were 10 years ago, it’s not going to get you to the level that we all know that you want to be. So, we’re going to challenge all of you to be better. And this is the spoonful of medicine that you’re going to have to take at every CG regardless if you wonder or not. Because we know how successful people that dedicate themselves to being the best leaders that they can. You start to when you when you focus on leadership, you grow people instead of grow businesses. And when you grow people, businesses automatically grow. >> Wow. Okay. I got a I got a good one. You’ll be on the spot. I’m guess I’m guessing you haven’t had this one, Leon, but >> Okay. >> Thinking about now, let’s put our You’re wearing the W2 hat, right? And you’re like, you’re hearing this right now from Leon saying, “This is an incredible community, highle real estate investors. I’m more passive. I want to keep my W2, but I want that. I want access to that. ” So, I’m even trying to rack my brain like, how do W2 professionals that are in their work and they know the people that maybe they’re not working next to in the cubicle or at the water cooler are thinking like we’re getting like like because we join those masterminds, right, to surround ourselves with these people. But what would you recommend to people like that? It’s a great question. Some of those that are like you, and I say you were, like you were, >> we’ve had some of those that we’ve made exceptions for. So, let’s talk about the highest first. So, the highest would be the people that were engineers or goodness, I’ve had dentists that or doctors that, you know, have built practices and they’re no longer in the business and have in high income and they want to go full-time real estate, but they’re not and have very flexible schedules. We we have had some of those at our elevate level, which is our entry level level. We do make exceptions when we see there’s a balance there, but that’s the highest level. anyone that is, you know, not ready for a community like that, I will say this is the best time that it’s ever been to be in that situation. I can’t think of one community to to give them. But what I can do is give them all the resources that are available to them today. >> There is so much content available between podcasts like yours and podcasts like mine and podcasts like Steve Trains, the YouTube University that’s available. You know, I can’t tell you how many people have made that switch to a full-time real estate investor, Casey, by just watching podcast and watching YouTube videos of how to wholesale, how to do creative finance. We have had, especially during COVID, right, where a lot of people were thinking about real estate, maybe got laid off and was like, “Well, if I’m going to do it, now is the time. ” And they jumped in at the right time because the market was unbelievably hot. I can’t think of one community off the top of my head that offers what we do for, you know, part-time investors. I know they’re out there. I can’t think of anyone to recommend, but I I will say this, when I started in this business, I think there was one podcast and a couple books available. >> And so, really, I had to learn because I did not have real estate experience getting into this. What I did have is leadership experience. I did have hiring experience. I had sales experience, corporate, HR, all of the things that you need from someone running a business. I had that but it took me 90 days to really understand by just doing. Well, now anything you want to learn is available for free whether it’s through a podcast or YouTube. >> Yeah, such a good point. Yeah, I think the resources out there to learn it and then yeah, I would just empower people to like get like Leon said it earlier, right? His best compliment was when somebody’s wife is like, I want you hanging around these type of people. That’s who I look up to. Right. I think I would try to find that community. Go find people that are like that and surround. They’re out there, right? Even in your W2. So, I would just encourage people go find that because you can learn it all, but then you got to get in the same room and just be feeling or even like take like do a double date with somebody that you like look up to and get your wives talking. That’s another hack I’ve seen. >> Well, there’s somebody in your market wherever you are that follow them all that do what you think you want to do in the future. Whether that’s fix and flip, fix and hold, apartments, self- storage, commercial, industrial, whatever it is, the asset class, doesn’t matter, land, lending, there’s someone in your market or region that does all those things like you, you’re a great follow, right? Follow those individuals. Listen to them all and then see who aligns with your core values and who you want to be. Like this isn’t rocket science by any means when it comes to this is the lowest barrier of entry of any business that I’ve ever been associated with. You know, like you you can start networking tomorrow and have a deal. You got to want it, right? But find people that you look up to. Success leaves breadcrumbs. I would follow the people that I know that I begin to know, like, and trust because I’ve followed them along enough. I can tell you this. I have had multiple investors come through and I’ve heard many a story like this as well at the Click Genius where someone reached out to the investor to say, “Hey, I’m not a full-time real estate investor. I don’t want to do that. I just want to lend and I’ve I’ve followed you for two years. You you seem like a great family person. You seem like a good business owner. How would I potentially be a private lender for you? ” There’s many ways to invest in real estate. That’s another one. And I would just start by finding people that you want to be like from the standpoint of real estate investing in your region or area. >> That’s great advice. Yeah, you got we gave you the tactical, gave you the surrounding yourself. I think that’s awesome stuff. Leon, let’s uh let’s go back to a little bit about your story you shared about when you were finding kind of that perfect blend between your W2 gave you access to real estate and then you kind of quickly slipped it in that could allow you to go coach your kids, right? So, I know I love we talked about we’re around the right communities that have probably influenced us and let us know that that’s a great priority, but I’m I just love to dive into like how do you manage it all?

Know you got boys that are active in sports. What’s love to hear it? So I man I love sports. They teach so many lessons. But the same thing goes for arts. My wife was dance major and danced you know she had she probably had more discipline than I did as a as an athlete. She was an athlete. So this is not just sports. But I just love the activities that teach us so many lessons. And so I always knew that I would want to coach when I had kids. Girls or boys. I knew I wanted to coach. And so thankfully I had someone that I knew really well that was starting a a travel basketball program. And I said, “I would love to come and and be a coach with you in your program. ” All the parents were like, “Which one’s your son? ” I would go, “None of them. None of them. Not a one. ” Uh, and they were like, at first they probably thought that was a little weird. And then they got to know me and they were like, “Oh, okay. Wow. Somebody’s going to coach before they have kids because they get that experience. ” And that’s exactly what I did. Started 15 years ago. >> Wow. >> Getting experience. I think I coached for three years before we even had our first son. Maybe two years. It was two years before our son was born. And obviously, he didn’t start playing until, you know, four or five years old. So, there’s about a six-year run there where I was coaching travel basketball in the summers, had my own teams, I was an assistant on another. And so, I just was gaining as much experience as I could. And I just made the time, Casey, early on. I I you know, most of the practices were at night and the tournaments were on the weekend. And so, I just fit it in. My my wife was very patient with me and it paid off because we moved to to Florida 5 and a half years ago and at 8 years old, my son’s now my oldest son is now 14. He got really at a level where he wanted to get better and I wasn’t pushing him. He was like, I want to get better. I was like, great, we’re all in. Let’s go. And two years later, three years later, he’s on a travel basketball team. And uh I eventually, you know, came back. I didn’t necessarily need to coach him, but came back to coaching. And we’ve now had that travel basketball team for three seasons, three years, and we have our first travel tournament this weekend. And I, you know, I leave here on Monday, we go to practice. I leave here on Wednesday, we go to practice. We get up early and we do our stuff. And this is not just my son. This is, you know, other kids in the community. We have nine players on our team. We have a three different teams with, I think, uh, 20 some odd kids, 25 kids, something along those lines. It’s just my life isn’t balanced without that >> really. >> Like, yes, it’s a lot. Like, I’ll leave the house at 5:00 a. m. to go work out and I’ll get home at 9 9 9:30 and haven’t been home other than maybe the change real quick for practice. You know, it’s a lot. But I don’t know what I would do without that in my in my life. It’s it feeds this need to serve. And, you know, it’s the best way I know. I call it my ministry. It’s my ministry, Casey, because I can’t influence kids at the level that I can influence them in a team and teach them life lessons. I can’t do that individually every single day with one. But I got nine twice a week on during the weekdays and I have them like Saturday and Sunday this week that we’re going to be teaching life lessons. We’re not talking just basketball. We’re t everything is a lesson and I just something I’ve always wanted to do and if I’m going to volunteer hours man nothing better than being on a basketball court or baseball field or football field. In fact, I’m coaching uh I I’m flag football as well. We’re doing that tonight as well. Offensive coordinator and that’s that’s my fun sport. We just to get we get creative with flag football. That’s fun. >> That’s awesome, man. Leon, I had like 10 10 places to go off of that. That was awesome. A lot of stuff I didn’t even realize about you. And first off for the audience like man imagine imagine this type of coach cuz I’m sure you see it in your communities right like there’s not enough coaches right and when you get to see I know that’s probably what maybe sometimes gets me to go coach an extra kid I got four boys and they’re like why are you coaching three teams I’m like well because I see what some of these other teams are being led by and when you when you lead by example and what you just ruin it for any other amateur coach with what Leon’s pouring into these kids. Well, I I hope it’s leading by example, Casey, that that other parents see that. Like, I didn’t want to be dad coach, right? I didn’t want to just be dad coach cuz I played basketball. I didn’t want to be the dad that just, oh, I I know everything about basketball. I wanted to be able to walk in and say, look, >> I’m not just your dad just and and and nothing wrong with that, but I wanted to have experience. And that’s why I started before. And that same person that helped me get into basketball also helped me become a high school coach. That’s that’s one thing I I think I I don’t have time for anymore that I want to get back into in the future. I’d love to get back into either middle school or high school coaching. Uh again, there’s so much that you can give back into your communities by doing this. I will say this, I do think it’s better today with coaching. It’s still just like referees. There’s not enough good ones. Yeah, I’m sure you can attest. But, you know, if you shoot if you show good examples, you should be able to recruit really good the the program director of the program that I’m associated with is just the most positive role model for our kids that were very blessed to to have good men running these organizations. So, I don’t knock, but I would say this. If you are that parent that wants to, you can make the time. I would encourage you to take the time to get certified as a coach. I’m USA basketball certified. All the stuff that you’re supposed to do in order to be a high school basketball coach. I just get all those credentials. That way you at least you know the fundamentals of the game and you’re not arguing with a referee about a call that is clearly wrong because you don’t know the rules. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay, I’m going to I’m going to go to your wife next that she rides along for all this, which is awesome, but I want to stay here, but just I’ll just foreshadow there. Yeah, cuz like I’ll make I’ll kind of make this point. I want you to expand on it, but I had this like in the depths of disappointment like a year ago when a team that was supposed to be really good, we got disappointed, knocked off in the playoffs and you’re just like crushed, right? Because you care so much and you invest so much time, right? And you not that like we and I think you’re a coach like me, right? It’s like we’re competitive, but we don’t like losing, but it’s it’s not all about winning and losing. But the perspective that helped me through it and the crazy thing is we have these businesses and all that and we still just you still wear it, right? You’re still just you’re disappointed. But what helped me was another dad was like, Casey, just think about it this way. There’s so many dads that don’t take the time to actually go coach and just the the moments that you’ve been with even just the mo even if you’re just I wouldn’t call it selfish but like even if you’re looking at from the perspective of the time you spent with your son because I’m piggybacking off is your point of like if you’re able and you have the time and you’re going to coach your kid but just like the moments that you share with them and getting to lead them and lead other kids. It’s like I don’t know it gave me perspective at that point of like hey yeah this stings a little bit but like the memories that I’ve created even just just looking at that season the last three months with your son or daughter. >> Man that’s I can tell you that I did not grow up with a father. So I had this thing on myself that I wanted to be the best father I could ever be because I didn’t have a father in my life. And uh that’s probably where this coaching thing came from. >> Wow. >> I didn’t even realize it at the time. I just know I wanted to do it. And I’m guessing if I look back, some of that was I wanted to do it because I wanted to spend quality time with my kids, girls or boys. Now, ironically, my youngest does not want to play sports at all. None. Zero. And that’s okay. He’s more into the arts and that’s cool. Uh but he’s got to do something and I’ll push him on that side as well. But with my 14-year-old, you know, I get at least three hours a week in basketball practice and then like tomorrow we’ll get uh two hours of game time, two different games and then Sunday we’ll have at least one or two games on Sunday depending upon our outcomes. You know, that’s an additional five, six, seven hours a a week with with with my son. I hear people talk about, “Man, I wish I I need to make more time for my kids. ” And what my best advice I’ve received that I’m going to share is just like you were just mentioning, find ways to incorporate your kids in the things that you love. I hear people all the time talk about, “Man, I I I just really would love to go golf, but you know, I don’t want to take away that time from my kids. ” Take your kids golfing. Mhm. >> Teach them how to golf and you’ll you you’ll have a golfing buddy for the rest of your of your life, right? Or man, I just really would love to go fishing. Take your kids fishing with you, right? That’s whatever you love to do. Kids can do it. Involve them. >> That’s so good. >> Like my youngest, he’s a he’s a comedian, man. Oh my gosh. He’s a he he’s going to be a Tonight Show host or an actor, a comedian, something along those lines. I can just I can already see it, you know. And so when I get time with him, I’m having him act out scenes or sing sing that rest of that song that you were singing before. Like we’re like pouring into like we we’ve got him in music theater and whenever he has a performance, we go to that. Now I can’t coach the performance. Yep. But I can I I could once he gets to that level, he’s eight now. I could help him read lines, right? If he needs to memorize lines, I could do table reads with him. Like those are the type of things that I want to do be involved in as much as that as possible. And on the reverse side, I want them to be involved in what I love as well. >> Yeah. Oh man, that’s such a good perspective. And and even motivates me, man. I told you I was complimenting her at the beginning of the podcast, but it’s like I feel like I pour and give everything these kids and love it so much. But man, to to go train and like pour into other kids, do that for several years, learn the craft, and then bring it to your kids and just the lessons, it just it motivates me even more of like the platform, the opportunity you have when you coach to influence these kids. >> Man, I I I know this. I know that I I can always learn. Like I said before, I’m about to turn 49 and there are so many better coaches. That’s the thing about coaching, man, is that I always feel inferior. Even though I’ve been doing it so long, I always feel inferior because I don’t do it full-time, right? So, I’m always asking for help or watching what other coaches are doing. I wanted to be an apprentice before I did it. That way, you know, I’d have a foundation. But man, I’m I’m stealing plays every single time I watch a game. Even during practice, our we have two seventh grade teams that play against our eighth grade team. Coach will do something. I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I got to steal that. ” Because, you know, that’s the culture. And the same thing about that’s what collective genius is. Yeah. >> Right. No one’s stealing anything. We’re coming to this group to learn from each other. And if you’re humble enough that no matter how good I think I am as a coach, I know that somebody has something better than me, then then if I’m humble, I’ll come in, I’ll give what I have, and in return, I’ll receive everything that and more that I’ve ever wanted. It’s it’s almost the exact same concept of learning from others, especially if you like I do not think. Now, do I have my opinion in regards to watching a game and saying, “Oh, they probably should do this. ” Absolutely. But even when saying that, I’m like, “Oo, I like how they did that. ” And and we’ll same thing with real estate is the same way it goes for me coaching with my kids. I love knowledge. I love getting better at that thing and being the best. Phil Green in our group, you know, really well out of San Diego. I so admire him because his entire everything he does has to be the best. not obnoxious, but just why do anything if you’re not going to try your best to be the best version of yourself or the best version of whatever it is that you’re trying to accomplish? Like I just love that. Like my my my son’s about to go to high school next year. It’s crazy to think he’ll be a freshman next year. And when I think about where I want him to go to school and where he wants to go to school, I want him to go to the place that’s going to give him the best chance to be the best version of himself. Like that’s just that’s that’s that’s the type of person that, you know, I think that I want to be around, you want to be around, and generally you can find those rooms, you know, regardless if you’re a full-time real estate investor or or or part-time. >> Yeah. Surrounding. The other thing I I want to echo that you just said is the humility part, right? It’s the lens I look through. It’s actually a core value of ours is humility. I think that’s one of the biggest reasons why it is, right? if you’re if you because Leon has this humility of like he’s not the best coach, right? He’s competitive. He wants to win, but he’s knows he’s not the best. He’s going to learn and he just approaches everything from that. And I think that’s just whether it’s coaching or masterminding or whatever you’re doing. >> All of it. All of it. You know, there’s a coaches have always been great at this. football coaches and and basketball co baseball coaches as well, but probably more so on the baseball or on the football and basketball side. You know, every summer, you know, coaches go to clinics and who puts on those clinics. Well, that’s a mastermind. It’s what it is, right? Here’s a practice routine that we do. Our defense is really good. You share this. Your zone offense is really good. You share that. Coaches are really good at doing that. And so, I love, you know, how we do that in business. And I I’m again I know that I don’t know everything. And if if the top coaches in the country, college coaches in the country can go and learn from other people, well, this this guy who’s not a full-time coach can definitely learn from somebody else. >> Yeah. Love it. All right. Well, as promised, I want it’s more of a personal question, but I’m sure our audience will get a kick out of it. So you’re as you mentioned and I I relate so much to your routine of like if you weren’t going all day coaching and doing it all and staying busy, you wouldn’t you wouldn’t have balance, right? But how do you keep the balance with your wife? >> That’s a great question and one that I have not perfected. Um it is >> it is man. >> Yeah. I mean it’s there’s seasons to life right again. I’m I’m in a season where I have 14year-old and a soon to be nine-year-old. Uh they take a lot of our attention and I only have two. So, you know, with two, you’re still playing man-to-man defense. You’re not on zone defense. I don’t have to run zone. I got two kids. That’s it. And we can each have one and, you know, do our thing. This is the hardest of them for me. But it’s just like everything else that we say in recommendations towards balance in the business. what gets scheduled is a priority and generally gets done. So the reason I say I’m not I have not perfected this yet because we are not good at scheduling out in in advance. When I say we my wife and I but I learned this from Jason Medley and again this is where I learned these type of things from really good husbands. Micah self is a great husband. Scott Meyer is a great husband and father Jason Medley. I learned this from them. Like they’re older than me, but they’re not so much older that, you know, they’re like, you know, well, back in 1960, this is how we did it, right? They’re not that old, right? Yeah. >> So, they’re at a similar age. And hey, you know, that was five years ago for me and here’s what we did. So, scheduling quality time, and somebody’s some people will call it date nights, but I call it quality because if you’re scheduling date nights and going to movies every every Friday, that’s not quality time. That’s sometime, but you’re not talking because you’re watching a movie, right? So, scheduling quality time. Sometimes for us, it’s pampering stuff. It’s let’s go work out together. Like, Saturdays in the morning before we go and do other stuff. Like, we don’t play until tomorrow afternoon for basketball. Well, tomorrow morning, my wife and I will go to the gym. She’ll do her thing. I’ll do my thing. Uh, and then we’ll meet after and we’ll have some coffee or we’ll have, you know, we’ll we’ll grab some some lunch. Scheduling that time is crucial. And as obviously as you get older and your kids are out of the house, you have more time to be able to do that. But I I would argue that if you don’t do those things now, that by the time your kids are out of the house, you would have forgotten why the two of you are together. >> Yeah. Such good advice. I like that’s another one to steal. like I wasn’t a runner before I met my wife and now she runs and so that’s kind of inevitably had to become a runner to have some good time and >> it’s the best you know don’t underestimate what you just said there doesn’t if you’re not a runner and your wife’s not a runner walks everybody can walk >> um there’s at least once a week and it’s again been less here lately we haven’t been perfect with this some of it’s because we have like this week every day after work we’ve been gone until like 9:00 and so waking up early to go early like 5:00 a. m. to go walk hasn’t been a priority. But just fast-paced walking and having a conversation. Quite frankly, it’s the only real time that we get to have some quality conversation beyond this. You know, when I say if you’re not if you’re listening to this on audio, it’s the back and forth. Hey, how you doing? Good to see you. I’m I’m I going to practice. I’ll see you tonight. It’s that you’re never you’re you’re crossing paths because you’re taking one to music theater and you’re taking the other one to basketball practice. We can sometimes just catch and sometimes it’s just catch-up conversation so we can by the time the walk is over, we can talk about, you know, things that we want to do uh upcoming. U so don’t underestimate walks as well. >> Yeah, that’s another great hack. Awesome. Well, cool. Leon, this is we’ll kind of start to wrap up here. this has been like I’m really glad we dove deep into the coaching and the family like any other sort of hacks or stuff you want to share on sort of the family front knowing that like yeah you’re and I know you’re just like me you’re still a work in progress working on it perfecting it from your wife to your kids to the balance >> yeah I think that if you are not currently coaching your daughter or your son in sports and you would like to do that um I would encourage you um to find you know an organization that allows you to volunteer and learn at the same time. For me, I found a travel basketball organization and just said, this is before I had kids, obviously, and said, “Hey, I just I don’t you not pay me anything. I just want to, you know, I I’ll be your assistant. I know the game, and I just want to learn how to coach the game. ” You can do that in any city. Like, there’s rec some YMCA’s and rec centers, they you don’t need any experience. You can just start coaching. But I would encourage you to seek resources to understand, including the the Y. Places like the Y will give you a beginners’s manual for coaching youth basketball at the YMCA. They give you a practice plan and they give you all the things that you need. So, if you want to do those things and you’re not you’re not quite sure if you’re capable of doing them, I would just encourage you to, you know, to volunteer your time. Volunteering your time as something that you can do with your kids or your wife is the best volunteer hours that you’ll ever do. And it won’t seem like you’re working for free because you’re not. You’re enjoying your your kid or your wife’s company and it’s something that they’re they’re going to be doing already. >> Mhm. >> And even if you don’t know the sport, you just simply say to the coach, I I just want to observe and be on the field or on the court with you. you if you need me to run stats, I’ll run stats just so you can be around it till you get that comfort that that comfort to be able to coach one day. >> Yes. I’m gonna add one more to it or let you add to it because I know that I can hear it in your voice and I know I have it the fulfillment and so if you can talk to >> you mentioned like you obviously you were passionate enough about it to go learn it and and coach AAU long before your kids were born, right? But I’m just curious like I know I feel it when you see the impact on these kids and you see them change and you see them fight through adversity and you teach them the lesson. But talk a little bit about the fulfillment that gives you every day. >> Oh my gosh. You know my fulfillment is and this is where your kid you have to be careful. There’s a fine line here. Okay. The fine line is that you have to continue to always keep in your mind that you’re going to always turn coach mode off when you get in the car with your kid after the game. Coach mode has to go off in your dad again. And it has to be I’m just so happy to always be around you and watch you play. I love watching you play. Coach is off. Okay. So, there’s a fine line there of being coach and dad. And that’s one that’s, you know, I’ve seen people cross and they never get out of coach mode and never go back to dad. And so, there’s this split. And thankfully the organization I worked for that I volunteered for the dad that ran the organization, one of the best players was his son. And I got to see that relationship early on and be able to understand what to do and what not to do as I was growing, you know, with my kid. But it is super important. There’s total fulfillment, but it can go backwards if you don’t turn it off and just get in the car, stop coaching, and just say, “Man, it was so fun to watch you play today. You got better. I’m sure you’re not happy with this or not happy with that, but I don’t care. I just wanted to watch be able I get to be able to watch you participate in that sport or that dance or that whatever it is that your your your kids are doing. the fulfillment is there, especially as you see them grow. And I I love seeing my kids grow. But man, when you have a team, a team of nine kids that you not only see your son getting better, but you see other people’s kids getting better as well because they’re actually listening to what you’ve learned in your you’re teaching wisdom. Yeah, that’s again what I said earlier. I need that in my life. Like I’m not fulfilled. I’m not a happy person, I don’t think, uh, if I don’t have this. And some of that goes back to, man, when I was in college, I interned 20 hours a week. I worked a full-time job. I work a part-time job and went to school full-time. Like, I I just never had free time. And so, my idol time, man, is I don’t even know what to do. It’s like uh I forget what movie it is when they’re taking a picture. He’s like, “What am I supposed to do with my hands? ” I think it was Anchor Man. What am I supposed to do with my hands? That’s how I am with time. It’s like when I have idle time, Jason gives me tells me about this all the time. Jason Medley, he always says, “Hey man, you need to take some time for yourself. ” I just don’t generally, unless I’m, you know, getting a massage or something like that. I generally don’t know how to take time for myself. So, my fulfillment comes from seeing others grow. And that’s why the the CG was a perfect fit for me, Casey. Mhm. >> Like I I get my energy, my son, you know, the where I pull energy from and fulfillment from is watching others grow and succeed. >> I’m with you on so many points there. I mean, I’m the same. If I’m not moving and doing something, I’m like I might as well be sleeping and resting cuz then I can be ready for the next one. I’d literally like I’ll start to like I want to just rest if I’m not going to be productive. And and back to like the fulfillment of the kids and other kids. I’m with you. Like sometimes I’m like I’m as as fulfilled on having that impact on another kid. Like you love impacting your kid. We care so much. But >> I know once you really and I I’m sure that’s how you were too, right? Because you coached other people that weren’t even your kids and I’m sure it was fulfilling then. But I am with you like it is so powerful >> and uh and one of my favorite moments was when we finished our football season and we got the pictures back and I’m like doing my postgame speech after we just lost a heartbreaker and just like I had a strat of um all the boys, right? But even then, I just saw my son and just the just the look of him like cuz he’s you feel like it’s always dad coaching him, right? But just like just the just he’s locked in and he’s just like just the look in their eye and I don’t know it just but to my point was it’s like you just have that time with him is priceless and just the impact and and my biggest one Leon I’m just I you gave a ton of takeaways today but the biggest one I’m taking away and anybody coaching their kids is the dad hat and the coach hat and flip that right when you get in the car. I honestly I don’t do I try to be honestly I’m probably trying to merge both of them at the same time on the field and in the car. But I agree just segregate it. You only take the dad hat or put the coach hat back on in the car if your son or daughter says, “Hey, Dad, in that one play, what could I have done better? ” They’re asking you for advice. Give it. Okay. Yeah. >> But then as soon as that is answered, that hat comes off. They want you to be dad. Like because if there’s anything I’ve seen that’s led to burnout in kids, I’ve seen it too much. Unfortunately, I see kids that are just going through the motions in sports these days because dads have them in everything. You know, dad has them in this and dad has them and that, dad has like it’s it’s too much. Uh and at some point, it can’t just be a a coaching relationship. It’s got to be I’m dad first always. on the court. I’m I’m coach, but I’m still your dad and I’m still going to do the best thing for you. Unfortunately, you’ll you’ll see this more and more as you get your kids get older. It stinks to be the coach’s son because or daughter because you typically my kid probably gets treated worse than any of the other kids in regards to like when he makes a mistake, I have to make sure that, you know, I’m disciplining him more than I’m even disciplining the other kids. What I mean by that is they can’t ever think that he’s getting favoritism. >> Yeah. >> Like I I never want a parent to think that my kid >> end of the spectrum. Yeah. >> Yes. They they have and unfortunately my kid but he’s built for it. >> I I’ve prepared him for it. I’ve given him the expectation that hey your dad’s son everybody’s watching. So you e you have to be the best player on the court. You have to be the best leader on the court. like I’m preparing you for these things because you can accept it. You’re capable uh of accepting it. >> Okay. Another one that I haven’t done. I’m going to That’s Luckily, I didn’t do it with my first one, Leon, but you gave me hope for the next three. I could just set that expectation. >> Set the expectation that hey, everybody’s looking at me that I’m going to treat you better than I’m going to treat the other kids. and I’m going to treat you fair and I’m going to treat you to the expectation that I’m going to give you right now, which is everyone thinks that, you know, it’s inevitable. It’s human nature. Parents are going to think that you’re you’re biased towards your son or or daughter. They just are. But I don’t have one parent I’ve never had a parent come up to me and say, “Man, you are your kid gets more playing time or makes more mistakes and you don’t dis like” Like I have never had that. Mhm. >> I’ve had parents come up to me and say, “Hey, it’s okay. We know. You don’t have to. We know you’re not. We see how you treat our kids. We know you’re not biased. ” Like, in fact, they’re like, “Can you lay off your son? ” Exactly. >> Oh, man. Leon. Well, I’m going to wrap it there, man. This has been so so valuable. So thankful, guys. I mean, the audience, this has been one of my favorite ones just because I connect and so many resonate. But I told you guys at the beginning of this episode, like I was hyping up Leon from the business perspective to to culture, right, to family and a husband and a dad. I’ve had so many takeaways and Leon, man, I really appreciate you today. >> Hey, this was my favorite conversation of the day, my friend. Thank you. I enjoyed it as well. Anytime I can talk business, excellence, sports, kids, family, it’s a great day. >> Love it. All right, thanks Leon. We’ll see you guys next week on Rigs to Riches. >> If you’re listening to this because you’re chasing freedom, not just for yourself, but for your family, then don’t let this just be the background noise. Take action. Shoot me a DM. Reach out. Find a property. Make a call. Remember, small moves today create the life your future self and your family will thank you for tomorrow.