Rigs to Riches Ep. 12 - Building a Real Estate Empire with Your Spouse: Vin & Michelle’s Secret

I always say you need money for real estate. It just doesn’t have to be your money. And that’s kind of where the whole learning how to capital raise came into play. But I know that there’s a lot of people that think that they can make a million dollars overnight because they saw YouTube video. Michelle and I think are big believers. If you have a good job, do that until you can replace your income. And this is just our humble opinion. Stick to that until you can replace that income comfortably and then go full-time. But we’ve seen time and time again, we’re like, “Well, I saw so and so on YouTube. He says that I can make a million dollars in the next 45 days. ” So, I quit my job yesterday. I’m like, “Oh, you shouldn’t have done that because that’s just going to just kind of come down hard real quick. ” So, Michelle, I don’t know if you want to add to that. Yeah, mine was totally opposite. Just kidding. [laughter] I’ve only been in real estate for 5 years, but I’ve been in as an entrepreneur for over 15, and I was a W2 earner. Learned a lot about that. I was in the staffing world, so I did head hunting back in the day is what they called that. And then I organically just kind of fell into construction. So I had a staffing company, reserved six months back then. I don’t recommend that now. I’d say a year, but six months back then for my W2 job and said I could just, you know, let me go ahead and do this and ran a staffing company. And then I had someone come to me and and say, “Hey, we’re struggling with a real estate business. we’re a big hedge fund and we’re not able to get these properties turned over fast enough because of subcontractors that we’ve hired. They just they don’t have enough bandwidth. And so with my background, I’m like, I could just stick three to four guys in each, you know, residential home, guys and gals, and and then we can be able to have an assembly line and and make it work. And that was my entrance into real estate was becoming a contractor, so not the agent. And then I I fulfilled that for you know a good time during COVID even though we were an essential company. And then I I moved back from I moved from Florida back to Texas because I thought at that time you had to invest where you lived and San Antonio is my hometown. So I said let me move back home to buy real estate. And I will say now I love my real estate that’s out of state and not the ones that are in my backyard. [laughter] [gasps] Wow. Well go I mean run with that. That’s a great topic because I know I invest in Houston, right? Grew up in Wyoming, knew the market. Now we’re looking all over the country every I mean I would love to do more in Houston, but I’m just I’m not tied to it. What’s how’s how’s it evolved for you? Oh, I I was going to say I’m sure now with what Michelle knows, I’m sure she wishes she would have stayed in in Florida and just done out of state investing from there. But no, it’s interesting. I don’t know if I mentioned before, but I’m originally from California, not a landlord friendly state. So I never held anything there. It was always fix and flip. I had properties back in the day in uh in Arizona and did a lot of traveling back and forth. Again, had a different mindset. So, I’m like, “Okay, I got to physically go out there every two weeks and kind of manage and everything else. ” This was before masterminds and conferences and everything else. Didn’t know anything about SOPs or having systems in place or anything like that, which was just made things very hard. And then back in, I can tell you March of08 when the when the bubble happened, Young and Dumb with Country uh Countrywide and KB Homes, bought my first home there. And it was so easy back then for anybody that remembers. I would say you probably didn’t didn’t even need a a pulse at that point. They were just basically here’s your loan, here’s your house. I’m like, ooh, this is cool. Can I do that again? And for me, it turned into a monopoly game. I was trying to buy up the entire block and everything was great for a little bit until you started getting those balloon payment uh loans and I’m like, “Oh crap, we just went from a $1,200 mortgage to a $67,000 mortgage times x amount of properties. ” And I can’t I can’t blame that on anybody else except for me not reading the fine print and not knowing what I didn’t know at that point. Not an excuse, but it’s definitely a learning lesson. Now Michelle and I, we own in Colorado. We own in northern Texas as well, but we’re not the boots on the ground. And it’s it’s some of the easiest stuff that we have now as opposed to what’s in our backyard or personal portfolio here in San Antonio. But it’s taken us about four and a half years to get there, right, to feel comfortable. I’m a a calculated risk person and so I have to really calculate it and then just say, okay, let me just, you know, take that leap. But it take it took a little while and now that we’ve done it and I think it’s just because of the experience and the comfortability we have been able to now invest in other uh you know as far as in other states because we have partners and we have operators in place and we don’t have to be there so do it all. Yeah. And go expand on the very first time. Right. So now that you’ve done a couple and you’ve got good partners, you’re comfortable. But can you guys remember the very first time you went out of state and how you felt it and how you managed it? Well, the first time was less than seven months ago. So we met through our networking group here. Vin and I had already discovered in 2024. We did an audit on our lives that you know we really want to lean in and double down on our you know one specific community and then we wanted to and also just learn and get really good at capital raising. So I always tell people you have to have two sources of income that comes in. You have to have that active income and some people don’t realize that’s your W2 and that’s okay. So you have to have that transactional active income that comes in and then you have that, you know, building the legacy, building that wealth and that that money that is for your rentals or for multifamily or if you’re getting into stocks or whatever that looks like. That’s the long-term game. And so when Ven and I identified exactly what would work for us, our, you know, um, active income is capital raising and building that lending business. And then we really still wanted to continue to have rentals, but we just didn’t want to operate them anymore. I didn’t want to go and do the construction and I didn’t want to the property management side. So, we really see someone that needed us as well and and and we it it aligned in that and they are very scared to go find money and capital raise and really good at the operation side. And so for us, what we have done with partnerships, we really get into making sure there’s an alignment there. So we don’t just jump in and say, “Hey, we’re partners and let’s just JV. ” But we were able to find that alignment. We started with one home. And to be honest, Casey, when we signed on the dotted line for closing, and I didn’t have to go rush to turn the utilities on, go change the locks and start to get the actual dumpster out there in the front to get the guys out there to start doing demo. I was like, “Oo, this could be nice. ” And so it was a little weird, but now that’s how we we we operate where, you know, we’re getting into some big big larger commercial and businesses and that is out in Oregon that’s not anywhere near us. And I’ve never even been to Oregon, but I will be [laughter] eventually. Wow. Yeah. I’m envious in a lot of ways of like just Yeah. Because I’m still doing all the parts of it, right? And just being able to be like, “Hey, I’m really good at raising capital just like you guys have gotten good at that. Know your niche and leaning in there. ” Yeah. Let’s keep running with that. I mean, I could go a hundred different ways there, but I want to like I’m really excited to dive into the capital raising. So, yeah, maybe talk about the first when you first started raising capital and then like how you did it then and when you didn’t have a track record and then we can kind of progress it from there. So, I I’ll start I’ll start with my story. So, I’ve always capital raised from my very first deal. I was fortunate enough. I had done some real estate prior prior to actually coming AC. I didn’t know what masterminds were, but I had some bad experiences in the very beginning and I’m like, man, I got kicked in the teeth, especially after after ’08. And I’m like, there’s got to be a better way. And that’s when I realized that in my immediate circle, I was asking the wrong people. They always say, you know, the the five closest people to you will determine what your future looks like. And I was asking people that were theoretical. And what I mean about that is like, well, you should do this. Oh, you should do it that. Oh, don’t do this and do that. And one day the light bulb went on and I’m like, why am I asking this person? I finally asked I asked a couple of them. I’m like, well, what is your experience in real estate? You know, how how are you justifying the information you’re giving me because it’s not working out? And they’re like, “Oh, well, no, I’ve never done anything real estate. I just tell people what to do. ” I’m like, “What? ” And it was just like a deer in the headlights kind of moment. And I’m I’m like, “There’s got to be a better way. ” And late one night, it’s probably 1:32 in the morning when all the infomercials come on and what was popular back then, real estate programs. And so the gentleman on the TV, I felt like he was talking directly to me. I’m like, “Wait, what? What did he say? ” Next thing I know, it’s 7 days later, I’m at a 2-hour event, which turns into a three-day event, which then turns into a $50,000 program. And when I was there, I don’t know why, and I’ve never seen anybody do it, but one of the owners of the company is like, “Okay, who’s here that needs money? ” you know, 90% of the room raises their hand and I’m like, man, I go, it’d be so great if we can actually know who the people with the money were. Only time I’ve ever seen it on stage. Okay, who here’s a private money lender that’s looking to put their capital to work? Well, while everybody stood up and raised their hands, I stood up, looked the opposite way from the stage, popped out my phone, and started taking pictures. I’m like, “Okay, I got to talk to all these people. ” And that was truly how I found my first private money launderer. Still to this day, she still works with us. she’s actually done things with us while everybody else was kind of trying to figure out what they were doing and I was very intentional every break I I popped out my phone and every picture that I took I was trying to find that person and that’s how that’s how I did it. So I’ve always raised capital from the very beginning. Didn’t realize it was actually a skill set until probably not even that long ago and then I think really just amplified once Michelle and I connected and we started doing things together. Her story is a little bit different. Yeah, I was um that person that put my money into all my deals and I started my real estate journey a couple of years prior to meeting then but we met because of a because of a mastermind we were part of at one point together and so through a mutual friend and when he met me at that point he was doing some other things and he’s like well I was fearful I was like I’m not going to borrow anybody’s money I’m not going to like uh that’s scary I don’t want to owe anybody in the streets I don’t want any of that and so the the pace that I was going. He was like, “You’re going to run out of money. ” I’m like, “No, I’m not. I’m just going to keep doing this burst strategy. The burst strategy is working and it’s working until it stopped. ” And I remember it was stop in my tracks. Um, I didn’t know a lot about real estate back then on how to leverage. So, I was putting 40% down when I was doing this burst strategy. You know, 20% is typical, but 40% down. So, you talk about all my money being in these deals and my first year in real estate, I bought 19 properties. So, I was super intentional on what I wanted to do. So, you can only imagine no matter how much money you have, you’re going to run out of that. And so, there was a shift in the market and I had five refinances I needed to get done. And I had my back against the wall. And so, I was panicking because the type of, you know, rentals we had at that time, they were already cash flowing, but I just needed to get them refied. And that was like the beginning of when Vin and I started and the beginning of my experience of of, you know, capital raising. I went we went to a mentor and I was just scared. I was like, I don’t know what I’m going to do. So, we looked at our portfolio and he’s like, you have a lot of equity in your properties and you’ve only had them a year, a year and a half. He’s like, you need to go and learn how to capital raise and you need to go and start talking to individuals. And so, it was a big mindset shift for me. I’ve always been an independent person and ran my companies, but now it is the best thing that I’ve ever done as far as mindset shift and what we are able to do. Instead of borrowing money, it’s really giving other people opportunities to be able to invest with us that may not know as much real estate as we do or andor with the operators such as yourself that we could potentially capital raise with and we work with and have those strategics. So, it is so crazy how I was so fearful of doing it and now this is our business model a few years later. Oh, wow. Nice, man. Two very unique stories and then you guys just keep going. I’m curious, Michelle, was it just a risk of It sounds like it was risk aversion, huh? Like when you were doing the fix and flips and keeping 40% in there. How come? I’m just curious. I didn’t want to owe people, right? I didn’t want to owe And then that’s including banks. I was like, it was like that story that everyone tells you like have everything paid off, don’t have debt, all debt is bad. And that is obviously not the case. Like you can have good debt. And and I didn’t know leverage. And I mentioned I remember back then I because I didn’t know the difference between when you got hard money, right, and to the point when you’re refiing out. I literally thought it was one transaction in itself. didn’t realize after first the first couple I realized you’re doing you know you’re paying the same amount as far as on closings and stuff if you twice but I just didn’t know and I remember back then I said nobody teaches you when you get into real estate the funding aspect of it the financial aspect of it they say go get your first contract you get your contract you you’ll figure it out as you go and I don’t know if anybody that actually has taken the plunge really understands the everything that is in real estate right there is so many different moving parts when you are in real estate and understanding and I said one day I want to really learn the financial side of things um and that’s where it’s now evolved and become I love this side now because I can now talk to the five years ago Michelle investors and those newer investors and say okay this is how we can creatively do it I I’ve saved people in a lot of moneywise andor um not doing I won’t say it’s a mistake but not doing the pro the same, you know, what I did and say, let’s leverage money. Let’s utilize other people’s money in order to get into these deals on the based on the way you want to scale. So, yeah, it it was a mind shift and it was a mindset thing. And then it was just scalability. You’re going to get stuck. So, so I was going to say I I don’t know about you, Casey, but that sounds very Dave Ramsey uh mindset. You got you can’t have you can’t have any debt. And I would say that that was originally I would say that that was the biggest difference. I love debt. And this is going to sound so crazy to probably most people that hear this, but I love debt. I will take good debt any day of the week as much as I possibly can. Good debt, I’ll sign my life away. Bad debt, different story. But yeah, out of every transaction I’ve ever done personally, I’ve never put in a single penny of my own dollars. The only time I’ve ever done that years ago to basically make a realtor go away. The reason that I say that is I usually take care of those that that feed the system. And so any realtor that would always bring a deal, I’d always give them the flip on the back end. And so again, I never did any buy and hold, but I did have a property. And this was before everybody was talking about midterm rentals. Everybody was talking about co-l livingiving. Nobody was talking about this back then. It was more of a corporate corporate leases back then. But I ended up finding a property right by Cal State Los Angeles in California, lit literally across the street. I’m like, I wonder if there’s a way to kind of rent this to students almost dorm style, maybe by the room. Again, didn’t know because now it’s common. Everybody’s doing that now. But back then, I’m like, look, I go, I don’t know what I’m going to do with the property. I don’t want to screw you. Have a good relationship. Would you be willing to take 50% of your commission and I’ll write you a check on the spot? I go, otherwise you might wait 6 months, a year. I don’t know. I go, I might not even sell it. Like, all right, I’ll do that. Only time I’ve ever put in any money into my own deal. Everything else has just been leveraging other people’s money. Vin, I relate 100%, man. I was having that conversation with my fractional CFO. I’m like, how the more money I could borrow against assets at like six and 7%, the more I can refi out like that to me is the name of the game, right? Then we’re growing wealth. I mean, we’re built, at least when you’re finding deals, you’re built to like finding deals is not typically the hard part. It’s getting financing at competitive rates and making it pencil, right? and the more you can get at six or 7% now or maybe sub six with when it’s going well. So, I’m like you. But Michelle, I want you to go deeper, right? Because I think a lot of our listeners are probably of that mindset. They’ve been listening to Dave Ramsey driving down the highway. He’s been in their ear saying debt is bad. So, you talked about like how you for what you how what helped you overcome it was sounds like scale like you wanted to do more. You wanted to accomplish more and you couldn’t do it. But I’d be curious your tips for people who are still just trying to overcome that and maybe they don’t have your ambitions of like how you’ve wanted to grow and raise capital. What’s other ways you’ve thought of like, hey, this is how you break through that mindset and really start to grow. Yeah. So, like I mentioned before, you utilizing the word borrow, right? When we say, oh, we want to we’re going to borrow money and we’re going to owe somebody something. In reality, you’re not borrowing money. There are many people out there, private money lenders that just want to lend their money. They don’t really want to own an asset, but they want to be part of a transaction. You’re giving those individuals an opportunity, one to be able to partner with you, and it could be a partnership of just providing the funds. And when I realize that is it’s all about impact. Now, not everybody wants to have the home. Not everybody wants to, but they know that they’re part of like our deals. We do a lot of impact driven deals. We do a lot of giving back to the community, military housing, uh, you know, and things like that. They just feel good to be part of that. And I now tell people, if I’m going to actually go and get money, I rather give it to the PMLs of the world, private money lenders, versus the Chase Bank of the world, right? Because the the end person, which is that private money lender, they’re utilizing those funds to put into their college, their kids’ college tuition and so forth. So, it’s an whole kind of thing that we’re doing to help one another. So, that had to be changed in my mindset. It’s not that I’m borrowing money. I’m giving someone an opportunity and I’m going to pay that regardless. Why pay it to Chase Bank when you can pay it to an actual lender? The second part of that is you build relationships. We are still, you know, I remember my first lender. I remember how scared I was to go to them. I didn’t even know how to do paperwork back then. I actually just, you know, in that conversation, we were in a mastermind. My mother is my first business partner in real estate. So, her and I, she’s a she was a W2 earner. I was coming from entrepreneurship. We partnered here in San Antonio to work together. And we were at a mastermind and I just, we were getting to the point that we were probably at that time like on our third or fourth deal. And we were just we were waiting for that other money to come back. Well, we were sitting at the table and the biggest thing we all say as real estate investors like, “I wish we had more capital. ” And I finally got the courage to ask, it was a son and a father that were in this mastermind. I finally got the courage to ask them and say, “Hey, we, you know,” and I had to have everything calculated. I’m like, you know, we can leverage this, we can do that. I don’t remember the whole thing, but I want I was just so scared. And when I finally asked Casey, he says, “You know what? Here’s the thing. I’m gonna give you an opport. He’s like, I’m gonna go ahead and I’m gonna lend to you. And I think at that time I needed like $30,000. He’s like, and he goes, well, wait, let’s look at the full project. You need about 50,000. Why are you only doing 30 and still trying to take 20 out of your pocket? I said, well, because I don’t want you to do the whole thing. I want to have skin in the game. When I realized, he’s like, we’ll give you the full 50 and in addition, we’ll give you some for the furnishing. So, we’ll give you a little bit more, but the one thing I need you to do is change your mindset. You’re not sitting here and borrowing money. I’m g you’re giving us an opportunity to bet on you and your mom and we’ve been waiting for this because we’ve seen your growth and how you’ve already been a proven concept. You’re moving a little, you know, you’re moving slower, slow and steady, but we’ve seen you’ve been able to actually succeed. Um, and they’re like, “And we don’t want any, you know, we don’t want real estate. We just want to be lenders. ” So, every there is a seat for everyone. And you just have to really understand that this is just what we do in real estate. If you’re even wanting to get an investment property, you know, I always tell people now, you may have a 401k right now and say, “No, Michelle, this is just way too much, too scary. ” Go lend your money out to someone else and you actually borrow money for your own deal. Because I always tell people, you’re going to treat others people’s money better than you’re going to treat your own. And if you, you know, think about that, if you invest on your own deal, you’re going to say, “You know what? I want those nice light fixtures. I can go a little bit over budget on on construction. I can, you know, you know, I didn’t want to do the granite countertops, but now I’m going to do it because it’s your own money. But if you’re borrowing someone else’s money, or you’re you’re actually you’re going to say, “Nope, we got to stay in budget. This is what we said. We got to be on track. ” And it’s just a subconscious mind that we always do that. So Vin and I when we make profit or we make we go lend the money out and then we always you know we’re always borrowing uh you know using utilizing other people’s money. Yeah. Again resonates. I always like sharing. Yeah. As capital races like we are the snowflake right or as real estate investors like we’re the people we are what like people want to do what we’re doing right. And I had to have that same mindset of like asking people for money, raising capital, but then I I’ve just been around enough people, right, and spend enough time in my W2 world where it’s like those people want access to real estate. They want to be part of deals and maybe they don’t want to be a the landlord that’s got to go take care of the toilets or the guy that’s got to go turn on all the utilities like you said and go set up manage the contractors, right? They’re but people people love the concept. They know the power of real estate and they want to be involved. So, I love how you guys have approached it as, hey, I’m providing an opportunity. Sounds like you had a great mentor there. Let’s go into some of the strategies and the things you guys are doing to raise capital because you guys have done I know you guys have done a lot on fractional. You’ve you guys seem like you’ve really really started to own the niche of getting bigger groups of investors, right? Because most people the conventional way to raise money is you go accredited investors. You go do a bunch of ads and you go look for the family offices and all the big fish. And that’s the best way. And all those people that do that, I’ll be like, “Why ever waste your time dealing with all this, all the extra investors? ” But you guys are mastering it. So, I’d love to hear more. I’m like, man, Casey, the stuff you’re talking about, that’s the big boy stuff when you start getting into funds and family offices. So, that’s the direction we’re going in. I think Michelle and I just kind of saw the light at the end of the tunnel. So, again, I’m going to keep referencing back probably to my age, but I had done a fractional deal years ago without knowing I was doing a fractional deal. And I can’t even call it that because it wasn’t structured correctly. I got into a deal, basically pulled investors together for a project, and then somebody that was older and wiser than me that had more experience, once they heard the way I was structuring it, I’m like, you better hope that everything goes right cuz if not, this is going to turn into a complete disaster and there’s going to be a lot of legal ramifications. So, I busted my butt to do that fix and flip as fast as possible to get out of it as fast as possible. Luckily, the people that I’ve worked with trusted me and I’ve never not paid back a PML. And that that includes even when deals go sideways. I’ve had deals go sideways. Michelle’s had deals go sideways. We’ve had deals go sideways together. But we always fulfill what we say we’re going to do. And I think for that, people still work with us just for that reason. And so I did that and I’m like, I’m never going to do that again. But when Michelle and I started doing bigger and better, you know, for anybody that’s doing the day-to-day, it’s always like a rinse and repeat. Okay, I found the deal. Now I got to I got to hurry because I got to be able to get the get the capital, be able to close in either 14 days or 30 days or whatever. And then it’s just over and over. You find the deal, you got to find the money. You find the deal, you got to find the money. And it turns into a vicious just chasing your tail kind of thing. And last year at Squad Up for anybody that doesn’t know that is is Pace Mortgy’s event, we met a young lady that was on stage by the name of Stella, Stella Han, which is one of the co-founders of Fractional. And when she started talking about fractional, had never heard about it. Didn’t even know that this was a thing. Michelle and I just immediately looked at each other, I’m like, I think this is a piece that we’ve been missing because we’ve been doing this for so long in our personal portfolio that a lot of our PMLs said, “Hey, my kid just turned 18. They have $5,000, $8,000, $13,000. ” I don’t think it’s ever been a hefty enough uh big enough amount to lock up a position in a property. And we were just saying, I’m like, “Look, love you. I’m sure your kid is phenomenal, but I can’t lock up a $70,000 position in a property for $8,000. It just doesn’t make any sense. ” I go, “Now, if you want to go in with your kid, and you guys want to come in? ” Like, “Well, no, no, I don’t want to. I don’t want to do that with my kid. ” I’m like, “Wait, you won’t do a deal with your kid, but you want us to work with your kid? ” Whole different story. And so, we just kind of got burned out on saying no to the people we didn’t want to say no to. So when we heard about fractional, I think at the event, we ended up pulling her to the side to kind of learn more because again, somebody usually has 20 to 45 minutes on stage and they can’t break everything down. And it took us about two months, if I’m not mistaken, Michelle, to really wrap our brain around it cuz we’re so used to what we know. I’m like, well, this sounds like a syndication. This sounds like a fund. How is this different? And then finally, I think it just clicked for Michelle. We figured it out. Like, okay, now we’re off to the races. And it’s been a gamecher to our pre-raising before the deal. And so it just opens up the doors to so many new opportunities and it also is building new relationships with people that we would have probably never cross crossed paths uh any other way. And we work with we’ve worked with a lot of we call them the main street investors, right? So they’re nonacredited. they have a little bit of cash from their 401k, you know, self-directed, and they they hear all of this from, oh, get a whole life policy or get um or have money in the bank, but go put it out to work because of inflation, but they just don’t know how. So, it’s they know and they have that that secured vessel to be able to do it, but then they don’t know how to protect their money. So when about so about a year ago I I really was working and teaching people how to and coaching people how to go raise capital then I really quickly realized that there’s more people that want to know how to protect their money and be private money lenders. And so for that it’s a lot of a lot of our our you know our amigos they are nonacredited investors and they’re really wanting that earn and learn. So like you mentioned fractional is very different right when we are on that platform it’s very different because it is the nonacredited investors it is the people that are a little bit scared it is they are the people that may not understand what the fund and syndications require and also they want sometimes a shorter time frame they want only three years or less so it’s a different diff demographic but we like it because you know knowing the people that can still you can be the ordinary person that has a W2 2 and still get into real estate. And it’s really helped us to work with these individuals and then be able to see them evolve with us. Kind of our vision is really evolving with us to get into the point that they become accredited through all the deals that they’re working with us on. Heck yeah. I love love love that concept. Love the pipeline you guys are building, right? You’re giving people that otherwise would not have an opportunity to invest at least in a fractional level. So guys, to break that down just a little bit simpler for some people who don’t understand, even what Vin talked about earlier about the hot water he could have potentially got in because he was bringing in passive investors, multiple investors into a deal that were passive. All right, that is considered a security. There’s a couple ways to still do it legally. One way is to create a fund and register with the SEC, go through all that stuff, right? For example, I have Big Horn Capital Fund. We do that, right? The other great way which Michelle and Vin have mastered and we’ve done one as well is through fractional. So now all those different people actually have a fractional interest. They’re active. They’re learning. They have a role in the investment. So that gives people who are unacredited or they could be accredited, but it gives people and it gives folks like Vin and Michelle who are just starting off and a want to do I think I love first off you because you’re doing it for the right reasons. you want to help these people, but also you guys are building up your track record and going to grow these people with you over time. So, it’s just it’s so cool that you guys are giving people this opportunity. And I’d love for you to go deeper there, right? Are you already seeing people that like like I’d love to hear some examples and stories of people where they came in like how much do they come in with, right? And then how do you see them growing and where do you see them going? Because I think our listeners our listeners are those people that are thinking, “Hey, maybe I got 30 or 50K in my self-directed IRA, but I want to grow this. ” We do a very good job because I know that you mentioned that like um what I will say is Ben and I have done syndications before. That’s where we started some of our outside of capital raising. Those are so much easier in the sense when you’re looking at it when you’re raising capital. So when you’re in this seat and you know this Casey, it’s like you have to dedicate for whatever that time on that project is. And for us like it’s not like if you miss it by a dollar like we need to get make sure we are hitting it because it’s already projected. And so when you’re doing this at a different scale, I say it’s easier to raise that million dollars off of the model that we’re currently doing. But there’s a different approach to it. And just like you mentioned, when you do get sometimes you do get those funds, sometimes you do get those family offices. We have family offices and accredited investors investing with us. So they’re wanting to see what we’re doing on this side. And it doesn’t mean the projects are smaller because we have done bigger projects within our clubs. And so it’s a relationship business. The good thing and what I think positively about this is if someone invests 25 or 30,000 with us, it’s to give us a chance. They want to see how we operate when we do that because we we operate and our private money lenders and our investors are like our VIP clients and they are the the relationship we’re building. We’ve already had just even in our clubs and this is just less than seven months. We’ve already had people that have invested in the first one trying us out and have gone into the second and have gone into the third. They’ve done three repeat. We’ve even had people come into and now they have their their kids college tuition because they’re a little bit younger or their their policy and they’re investing. Now we have little amigos u in our in our last one. Um and so Oh my god, I love that. I’ve never heard that one before. We’re gonna have to make that one sick. The little amigos. Little amigos. The little amigos. And so you’re teaching them just like you teach your children and your son just got a a house right now, you know, for his birthday.

You’re teaching them that financial literacy that we all didn’t have access to before. It’s all relationship. I think the biggest thing when we’re in capital raising mode, when I get someone on the phone and they say, “We only have 30,000. ” And by the time we tell them our vision, our mission, and really I tell them, “Do due diligence on us. You need to know who we are. You need to know our track record. here is what you need. Um, by the time we get at the end of that call, they’re like, “Okay, maybe I found, you know, maybe another 50,000 somewhere. ” [laughter] Um, and so those are the things we want to build a relationship and with fractional allows us to have a little bit of a lower entry point for people to be able to try us and see does is this working? I’m scared. I I have maybe only 50,000 in my in my savings. I only want to, you know, do 15 or 20,000 and then I’ll can always come in and do another one and or do it later and continue to grow. I’m sure Casey, you have that same experience with once you do well with your private money lenders and your investors, there’s no reason for them to go anywhere else and they just keep growing with you. And that’s our that’s been our goal. Yeah, we were actually just talking about that on one of our capital raising calls yesterday about the cost of a new investor versus the cost of keeping existing ones. It’s like if you take care of them, communicate well. It’s just like anything that’s that’s a more powerful. I mean, there’s lots of businesses that have that same concept. It’s like just retaining your your people versus bringing a new one. It’s that sort of that battle, right? But I’m curious. So, what are you guys doing though? What are you doing to bring in and continue to find folks like this? Right? Find people who’ve got 35K in their 401k or they’re self-directed or maybe they uh just had a little bonus from their W2 job that they want to deploy or wherever they’ve been saving it. How are you finding these folks? So the truth of it, Casey, and and I think this is probably where there’s a split for us. It’s a constant hustle. So we’re always marketing. We’re always trying to just connect people. Like even when we go out to dinner or stuff like that, subconsciously, we’re just, you can call it a sickness or not, but we’re we’re programmed that we got to network and we got to meet people. So even like if we go to like a nice steak dinner, we usually try to be around other people or sit at the bar. We sit at the bar, not to necessarily drink and get hammered, but it’s it’s interesting. Sometimes you’re like, “Okay, it’s it’s 1:00 on a Tuesday. Let’s go to, you know, a local uh like the JW here uh golf course. ” I’m like, “Okay, there’s probably some CEOs. There’s probably people that can skip out of being in the office and go have a cocktail. Let’s go hang out with them and let’s meet them. ” And we’ve met very interesting people, but it’s always it’s always intentional. And I think at this point, it’s kind of just programmed into us. But just even networking and and just anything that’s going on in the city or even online. We just try to connect people on on different levels because you just you just never know. I couldn’t agree more with what Michelle was saying earlier and for us it’s just the trust that people give us. Some people the $35 $50,000 is just their pocket money and they’re like look I’m going to give you this cuz I want to see how full of BS you are or you’re not. And then if you’re not then you know this is just my play money. But then there’s also people too where $50,000 or even less, that’s somebody’s entire life savings. And so we treat both avatars with the utmost respect. I always tell people I go, I love and I respect my money, but I love her and I respect somebody else’s money so much more just because of that simple reason. And for somebody to to believe in us enough to give us money, we’re going to always bust our butts to make sure that we fulfill and do exactly what we say we’re going to do. And we don’t there’s been times where we don’t take everybody’s money for different reasons. Sometimes it’s just not good money. But there’s been times where people have said like, “Hey, this is my last 50 grand. I need to get this to work. You know, this is my kids’ life savings or I don’t have anything else. ” We in good conscience won’t take that because we’re going to try to control everything as best as we can. But if something goes sideways and they don’t have another nest egg, we wouldn’t be comfortable with that. I’m like, look, I go, I love the fact that you want to work with us, but I can in good conscience do that. You know, maybe it’s a smaller amount or maybe we can figure something else out. We’re solution based and we’ll try to make it work, but there’s certain situations we just we just can’t. Not because not because they’re a bad person, it’s just it’s not a good fit in that specific scenario. Awesome. And Michelle, I’m going to let you answer the same question because I know you literally just got before our call, we’re closing a deal, finding more investors, but I want to highlight what Vince said and just the integrity and how much and both of you have said it, how much you care about, you care about other people’s money more than yours, right? I can totally relate to that, right? It’s like, hey, we’ve had deals too where like we didn’t make money and we lost, but it’s like, hey, I’m going to take that loss even though technically maybe by the documents they could be on the hook for it and we just screwed up. Crap happens, right? But no, like at the end of the day, we I I like how you guys think about it. It’s like, hey, I can go I’ll figure out how to do more deals and make more money. Like last thing I want to do is that person’s only deal went sideways and now they don’t get paid back. So, I love your guys’s perspective. It’s the same one I carry. But Michelle, go ahead. Share what how are you how are you guys continuing to find these folks? Yeah, I mean, we we are honing in on the craft. anything that you’re doing, it’s the art of whatever that looks like, business development, relationship, and like I said, we when we found out what do we like and I love, you know, being able to have access to funding and money, um, and we like relationships and we like to build this, but I really, you know, the type of capital raising that we’re doing is really talking just to normal people that are want a chance to make their money work for them and make that and they may not know how that is so you know my first private money lender you know those two in addition mom was a private money lender my kind of where it stemmed from that as well mom had 250,000 in her 401k she was working at a company for over 25 years when they saw that she started getting into the retirement age something happened and it went down to $90,000 and they expected her to live off of 90,000 plus social security we didn’t come with understanding ing real estate. We didn’t come with knowing how to have investments and build wealth and financial. I know as a little girl it’s like oh well you go you work a W2 and from there then you continue with you know you maybe get social security you’re paying into that and then you learn about 401k. So that always makes has me reminded when I’m talking to others like let’s make this grow for you let’s make this work and anybody everybody is a potential private money lender. So, I have just conversations and so the just a couple of days ago, we had someone contact and this is the the one that you’re talking about. He sent a deal to me. He wanted me to look at it cuz it was in San Antonio, Texas. And he wanted us to lend on it because what we do now is we work with our private money lenders and we have a lending business. So, we grow together and lend to the Casey’s of the world and other people, you know, on small projects or on projects and short term. And so, he wanted me to look at a deal. Again, you’re always it’s all about relationships. So, I looked at it. I said, “Hey, that’s not a deal that would really make sense for us to lend on. However, let’s continue to keep talking. ” And I always ask, “Have you ever been on the investment side? ” Again, goes and borrows money, but is lending his money out. He goes, “Yeah, I I have. ” And I said, “Is it just in real estate or is it in businesses? ” He goes, “I actually do both. ” Guess what kind of where what his W2 job is? What his the industry he’s in? oil and gas. Yep. So, I like you oil oil and gas people. And so, we started talking and and and so I basically told him I said, “And we’re always raising capital, right? ” So, I kind of tell them in future projects. I’m like, “It hasn’t hit the books yet, but we may be future be raising for um you know, this kind of business and this deal. ” Well, comes to find out, he calls me today and he says, “Is is this the type of deal because it’s on fractional right now. Is that what you are currently raising for? ” I said, “Funny enough, they’re the same operators that we are raising for. Uh, however, we are just helping them close out that because we can’t start a new project. I never thought to talk to you about that deal cuz it’s just like we got to get it closed in 3 days. ” He’s like, “You know what? Because you you’ve taken time to explain to me, you’ve taken the time to get to know me, you’ve taken the time to actually look at a deal for me again, building those relationships, I’m going to invest in that one. And when does that next one start? ” and I said it’s going to start in about a month or so. I’ll be able to invest in that one as well. So, two time you know just by again not selling and just explaining what we’re doing and building and taking and being, you know, taking care of people. We were at a networking event two days ago that we that we had to get there like like we found out someone was in town and I was like this is an opportunity for us to meet him and he had a mastermind going on. We didn’t know what we were walking into. It’s people there that are real estate agents. His mastermind is teaching them how to become investors. And when we’re sitting at that table and we’re talking about private money lending, everybody’s like, “I didn’t think that you can get in as little as $15,000 to become a private money lender or into a deal. ” Versus they always everybody thinks I got to have a $100,000. I got to be rich in order to go and go into an apartment building or into something, you know, in real estate. Every person is an opportunity and you never know. And if it’s not them, they know someone. Oh yeah. I love the confidence too that you’re giving these folks, right? Because yeah, there are people out there that might have 100k or and may in a couple years might have 200 250,000, but right now they want to get comfortable. This is new to them. And you providing an opportunity at 10 to 15,000 is like like you’re literally giving them like the zero to one like the first step to go do a deal, have some more confidence. And now I don’t know. I just I love the I love the opportunity you’re giving them and I love the education you guys are doing and because Yeah. people aren’t until you do that first one, you’re not going to go invest everything you got or even maybe 50% of what you got. You got to test the waters. Yep. No. Yeah. Casey and and if I can add to that and this is past experience as well as ours. It’s 100% in regards to that. Like people always ask or people always assume we’re either in real estate or in capital raising or business acquisition. And I’m like, “We’re in none of those. ” And like, “What do you mean? ” I go, “That’s what you guys talk about. ” I’m like, “That’s what we talk about, but that’s not the business we’re in. The business that we’re in is the people business, the relationship business. My currency is relationships. That’s what puts food on my table is doing that, not the real estate or the money. That’s a byproduct of what we’re doing. ” But it’s exactly what Michelle says. It’s as simple as you got to be interested, not interesting. You got to try to build rapport with the person and actually have a conversation with them and not just run off at the mouth of how great you are. Nobody, let’s be honest, Casey, nobody at the end of the day really cares about how great you are. It’s really about them and what they need. And if you can figure out what that problem is and solve it for them, that that’s huge. I always tell people, I’m like, I don’t care how good the deal is. If somebody doesn’t like you, doesn’t trust you, or doesn’t think you’re a good person, you’re never going to be able to get any money from them. So, you have to be a good person. And you got to be genuine. I think it comes back exactly to what you said. You got to be confident in what you’re saying/selling, however you want to see that, because people will detect the BS. If if you’re not confident and you don’t believe in what you’re saying, the person you’re speaking to is not. And don’t be don’t sound like a used car salesperson. Michelle and I had that conversation not too long ago. I’m like, I think they have a great product, but they’re just not relatable. they’re not coming off genuine or they they’re it almost sounds like they’re coming off of uh a little bit of desperation while they’re capital raising. I’m like I can see where some of the hiccups are. But if you believe in what you’re selling, you’re a genuine person and like I said, you’re taking a genu genuine interest in this person you’re speaking to, that eliminates probably 50% of of the hurdles that are on the table to try to move forward. If you can do all that and the deal is good, and again, the deal does have to be a good deal. Money shows up. You just have to knock on enough doors to find it. And that that’s what I 100% believe to to my core. So yeah, a lot of people think are like what’s the secret sauce and you know what the secret we said it does it’s not the CRM, it’s not the workflows and the funnels. It’s literally building relationships and calling. It’s the good old pick up the phone. I saw you were on my webinar and I you must have been interested because you stayed on. how what questions can I answer for you or how can I explain the deal better for you or how can I make it make more sense? It takes more time, right? AI can’t replace us when it comes to that. Not yet at least, but it, you know, it’s the building of that and it’s we’re constantly, you know, we’re that’s how we’re able to be successful when people ask that. And then we love it because when our investors win, we win like and and that’s the exciting part about it. So, so good. So good. Well, one we skipped over that I want you you guys know is the passion of mine. You talked about the little amigos, right? So, as you guys see, I’ve talked about a lot of my content, especially as of late, and I’ve just again, I shared this at my last summit, like having a deeper purpose of helping our younger generation understand how to be financially free and and just make smarter decisions and understand what’s out there, right? No one taught me that. I’m assuming no one really taught you guys that. we had to go join masterminds to figure it out or read books or really go down the podcast path, right? But what tell me Yeah, I just love to hear a little bit more about what you guys are doing there or what you envision as far as helping more like younger adults invest. Yeah, we definitely we are we definitely want to start a family. we are uh you know dog uh parents but one of the I didn’t know where that one was going but we want to have you know one of the things that you know it’s always another day for another another day for the story but it’s really we’ve worked our our tails off to get to where we’re at but sometimes you do sacrifice of family and we both we came in late of us both doing entrepreneurship and we don’t have children of our own yet so there’s two ways like we’ve really family is a big thing for us. We believe in that. We love family. We love community. We love serving our projects, right? So, our portfolio that we have, those are all for impact. We are currently right now looking to really support the aged out foster youth. So, two things. One, we’ll either get inherit get a bunch of young adults and be able to to give pour into them and give back that way or we we’ll have little ones of our own and or we’ll adopt. And so those are things that Vin and I talked at when we first got together and it’s like, okay, hey, you know, where are where is our alignment, but when do we want to move, you know, in that? So soon we’ll be able to go to your family trips, you know, with everyone that has kiddos. [laughter] There you go. I know you do those outings with the ones that have kids and the parents and stuff like that. But yeah, I we I love children. Vin does as well. And it’ll be pretty interesting as we we grow that side of it. And I say that because I’ll be the disciplinary and I know he’ll be the ones like get away. They’ll get away with everything because that’s just Vin. [laughter] Yeah. No, I love it. And even like the And Vin can answer too, but even like you guys mentioned you’re helping even right now though. Like I love what you where you guys are going. That’s so cool. So yeah. So Casey, I I’ll add to that to kind of go back to the original question. So again, I think we’re going to have to trademark that. That was born on this podcast, Little Amigos. that’s never those two words have never been put together. So, I love the fact that that’s that that’s going to be my takeaway from this. But yeah, it’s going back like I said, it’s from the relationships and the years that we’ve been doing this. Now, people’s kids are starting to invest with us. But I think it’s a couple things. The success we’ve had is because when we say we’re going to do something, we’re going to work our butts off to to make sure that that’s done. That’s number one. The other thing is that like Michelle said, our personal portfolio has all been for a purpose-driven impact projects whether it’s displaced families, military, she said now as foster youth with Amigos’s funding, which is the other side, the lending side of it. I think all with the exception of one deal that we’ve actually gone into and lend they’ve all been impact driven projects, meaning it’s either been a sober living, uh, co-living all around that space. I think all of them except for one which was a quick flip have all been impact driven projects and so our amigos just love that and as more people start to hear about that they’re like well I can make money you know with this person or that person but the fact that I know that we’re leaving a legacy or helping somebody or making an impact it’s really making an impact in somebody else’s lives which I think is a huge piece of our business model. Yeah. Keep going Michelle. I mean I love it. Yeah. Yeah. So family, you know, it’s really, you know, it’s all about helping families, community, being able to be a part of that. We have a vision and mission to make sure that, but we also one of the things as you see, we have a lot of things we’re juggling, but I think for 2026, I told Ben, it’s really starting to focus on us, like focus on that family side of things for focus on that faith, you know, in the family. sometimes we can’t shut it off. But even yesterday, I’m like, there’s not enough, you know, we’re not over here saving lives in the sense of brain surgeons or anything. Let’s sit down and have date night. Let’s sit down and really just put your phones away and not talk about work as much as, you know, as much as possible. So that will I will say that is something we need to continue to keep working on because we do have we do tend to work late hours and so forth because we’re working in our business but with the goal and the intention to be able to enjoy it because that’s one thing you want to do. You want to enjoy it. I will say we like to travel. So that’s that’s part of when we do enjoy it and sometimes just shutting it off is just for a little bit. Like you going to Africa loved it. So, I’m like, that’s going to be a a goal of ours. [laughter] Shut and then going somewhere where you just can’t use your phone. Exactly. That’s a good That’s a good way to force it. Well, you you saw right where I was going next, Michelle. So, we’ll go a little deeper. I wanted to ask you guys, as you guys were going through the story, I didn’t get to stop you and share how you guys met. You mentioned you met at a mastermind. So, I’d love to hear that story. And then let’s keep going further to kind of wrap it up here on like how you guys work together, right? Some husband and wife say don’t ever do it. some nail it like you guys, but I want you to guys go a little bit deeper how it works for you guys. Yeah. So, my short and sweet because we’ve been on here. My short and sweet story is u because Vin, if you ever want to hear the the emotional side, he always gets the ladies to cry. He’ll he actually at the networking event u we all sat down at dinner. Um it was very important for that in for the person hosting it saying we I want you guys to break bread together, but he strategically kind of put us away from each other. So you weren’t sitting next to your spouse or anything. And I love that approach because he’s like, “You guys know each other enough. Go and talk to others. ” So he was telling this the how we met down, you know, a few a few chairs down. They were crying at dinner. I was telling it on the other side and we were just straight to the facts about what it is. So it’s an opposite when we tell it. But yeah, we met through a mutual friend through a mastermind. Ben was looking to come here to San Antonio. I had just been back for in, you know, three months. And the the thing is that we had just a phone call and it was a conference call. He thought that I was an agent here in San Antonio and I wasn’t. I was an investor. But Vin fell in love with me then and said he was going to marry me. His business partner, and that is the truth. His business partner is like, “You don’t even know who she is. ” And uh he goes, “Just the way that she was, I will be marrying her. ” And it’s so funny because I didn’t know the story at the time. I was keeping it business. And uh and three days later, Yeah. And three days later, he comes down and he goes, “If I’m ever in town, would you be able to show me around? ” And I’m like, “Yeah, yeah. ” You know, you just say those things because you’re nice, right? Well, 3 days later, he was on a plane and he was here. And I remember still business for me, but I eventually he’s like, “I don’t want to do business with you. Like, I want it to be this way. Like, I want it this. ” and then gave me an ultimatum and he’s like either yes or no and I’m like whoa well I was on 75 hard at that time I’m like I need to go do my walk and I’ll come back to you [laughter] and since then actually today is our fouryear anniversary today is our four year anniversary and so so so that we’ve never you know been inseparable since then and so that’s that’s been our story we’re not married yet, but we will be next year. We’re We’re I’m like, Texas says we are, so let me stop you there. [laughter] Yeah, someone told him and said, “Hey, six months you guys are married. [laughter] Common law. ” So, yeah. Oh, well then I’ll let I’ll let Vin go in a second, but just knowing you guys, it’s one of my favorite parts about Vin is like Vin is like first time we met, right? We were talking about Vin was like very like, “Hey, I want to bring value. like I want to I think we could work together. Like right to it. And it’s it’s honestly a trait that I try to bring out cuz I sometimes am a little bit too passive. But like share what you want. Tell them what you want. Tell them how it’s going to be. I love that part about you, Ben. But back to you, man. Yeah. I would say that’s probably the ging and the gang. I love strong independent women. I’ve had strong independent women in my life. I’ve never had anybody to the level of Michelle. So when she says I knew she was the one within two minutes of a phone conversation and I was all in sight unseen. It was like buying a property out of state. Side unseen I’m buying this [laughter] property. I’m I’m going to bring it back to real estate. Um and so my partner at the time had been trying to get me to come out to San Antonio literally for just under a year. No interest, no interest. Within that conversation, 45 minutes after that, I started looking for a flight to come out to San Antonio. So, I knew I knew like I said even before anything else. But I think where we find the balance where we work well together. Michelle is very detailed, organized, very calculated before we jump off the cliff. I’m the opposite to her. I’m like, I’ll build a plane on the way down. So, there’s times where we go and she’ll be very delicate with her questions. And I always say, I’m like, at this stage in my life, would I rather have more real estate or more time? And I think everybody as they gradually get older, it’s the same thing. It’s like I’d rather have more time than real estate because real estate, we figured out, we know what the blueprint is. We can just rinse and repeat that. But I think Casey, maybe you’d even be able to to relate to this. It’s it’s all about those pressure moments and we got to be intentional because life is short. And so I’m like, okay. I go, if we want to know something, and I learned this, I wasn’t born this way. I kind of had to um grow into this myself, but I’d rather have somebody tell me no than be driving home. I’m like, man, I wonder what if or I should have asked. I’m like, man, I screwed this up. I’m like, I don’t know if I’m ever going to get that opportunity again. So, for me, it was worse. I’m like, well, now I’m wondering for the next x amount of days, hours, weeks, months, years, maybe. I I know I’ve had things that have gone years. I’m like, man, I wonder what would have happened if two years ago I would have asked this one question. So, now I’m like, what’s the worst that’s going to happen? They’re going to tell me no. But it doesn’t come from a place of being selfish or just being interested in myself. It really comes from a place of being of service. And it always comes back to why aren’t we working together? I’m like, if this is your skill set and this is my skill set, if we were to work together, at least have that conversation, who knows what the future looks like? Because for Michelle and I, it’s always of who can we be of service to? Who whose life are we impacting? And we always say I’m like, we’ve never made a single business decision based off of the monetary value. It’s who’s whose life are we going to impact and leave the biggest impact in their life. The money is going to show up regardless, you know, by doing right in the world and by trying to serve other people. So when we go somewhere, it’s depending on what we’re doing, it’s either one sets them up and the other one knocks them down. And so I’m very much I’m like, “Okay, like Casey, I I knew about you before we actually even sat down at that dinner. I’m like, okay, I probably have about 15 minutes with this gentleman. I’ve heard nothing but phenomenal things. Let me see what I can absorb from him. ” but also leave him in a better place than the way that I found him. And that’s really the way that we operate. It’s it’s anything that we do, I got to try to leave it in a better situation than when I first found it, man. So genuine and like for for all the right reasons and inspiring too for myself and I’m sure our listeners too. Like if you’re man, you gota I just learned it, right? When I go to a mastermind and I go there, sometimes I’ll like be my na nature is actually to sit back sometimes, but I’m like no, like go I I am taking time away from my family to go be at this mastermind. I better get the most I can out of it. And I better like to Vin’s point, I better get a yes or a no. Like can I work and help with this person? No. I mean, I love the efficiency part of that because it’s like to your point, we only have so much time. Like let’s know so I can go help the next person. 100%. And let let me leave your audience with this nugget. There’s two things that I always ask anytime I walk into a room and anybody that personally knows me, Michelle and I were big introverts. But for me, my aha moment is that if I don’t do, and again, this goes back to Ajot Foster Youth and some of our Mount Everest, is that if I don’t do what I have to do today, there’s a potential that somebody’s sleeping outside tonight that I could have possibly helped. That’s number one. But when I walk into a room, I always ask, “What is your biggest need and how can I help? ” And then once I hear them and if I’ve connected with somebody else in the room or I know somebody, I’m like, “Let me connect you with this person. ” Once we’ve gotten past that conversation, then I’d be like, “Hey, do you know of anybody that can that can help me out with my biggest need? ” And it’s it just opens up the conversation completely different. And it’s it’s not self-s serving. It’s how do we just fix more more world problems. So good. And the question Yeah. And the question that you asked, how do we work together? We just know our lanes. We’re not even in the same office anymore. No. So, we we just know what our strong part is. And then I have to trust and respect. And that’s the one thing I love that we’ve built over time. If I have a certain feeling about something, there’s no question on the other side. And vice versa. If he’s like, “This is doesn’t. ” Because we know what we’re our alignment is. And there’s times there’s arguments and fights and you didn’t do this or you didn’t do that. And we have to all go back to we both have to just calm down and then just come back to what are we doing this for? Like why are we spending so much time and invested in this for this? And if it doesn’t align with us anymore, we just don’t do it anymore. And that’s why we’re constantly auditing our lives, constantly auditing where we’re at as a couple and really just making sure we’re checking in with that. But you know there he has a certain responsibilities and staff that reports to him and I have the same and that’s how we’re able to work cuz it was it was kind of hard and testing at the beginning. Remember I owned my own companies and did what I needed to do as an entrepreneur by myself. He had the same he’s he’s been able to take two companies public like those they’re two different things and it’s like how do you put this together? And as a female, typically in most situations, we’re supposed to sit back and supposed to just be there. Yeah, there’s no sitting back in our relationship here. And in fact, it’s one of those things that Vin has encouraged me to do because I do take calculated risks, but he pushes me and says, “Okay, that’s all you’re thinking about. ” Every time we do a capital raise, doesn’t matter if it’s half a million or three million. I’m like, “I don’t know if we’re going to get there. I don’t know if we’re going to do this. I don’t know how we’re going to do this. ” And I get stressed. He’s like, I knew we were going to have it all along. And so that is the person that he we push each other because I I, you know, do the same, but he pushes me to get out of my comfort zone. And then the same thing when we’re at events like we both want to go upstairs and we’re introverts and we don’t, but like you said, we’re taken away from family. We paid we’re that you’re maybe be one person away that can change your whole life and trajectory of where you’re in the direction you’re going. So, we’ve learned to get out of our own way and just be able to to respect both of our lanes and be able to help others at the same time. Love it. Well, I’m going to summarize and wrap it up here in just a second, but where could people find you guys if they’re interested in raising capital, learn how to do it, deploy their capital, man, be a husband and wife couple and keep it all together. Where could people find you guys? So, for for Michelle to follow her personally, it’s my story Michelle. For me, it’s atmystory vin. And if you want to check us out online, just go to michelleandvvin. com. I know we’ve talked a little bit about amigos. For anybody that wants to check out the amigos club, just go to amigosinvestment. com. Perfect. All right. Well, I’ll share all those links in the episode notes for you guys. And yeah, this has been fun. The first ever couple we’ve had on Rigs to riches. very unique today from the perspective of like looking at risk and from the perspective of looking at it from a couple and knowing your balances to raising money with integrity and helping giving other people opportunities that otherwise don’t have opportunities to invest. So much gold you guys shared with us today and really appreciate you guys coming on. Of course. Thank you. Thank you for having us. All right, we’ll see you guys next week on Rigs the Riches. If you’re listening to this because you’re chasing freedom, not just for yourself, but for your family, then don’t let this just be the background noise. Take action. Shoot me a DM. Reach out. Find a property. Make a call. Remember, small moves today create the life your future self and your family will thank you for tomorrow.